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(New) What cubes should be added to the WCA events list?

What cubes should be added to the WCA?

  • Curvy copter

  • Team blind

  • 2x2 OH

  • 2 3x3's at once/double OH

  • kilominx

  • ghost cube

  • mirror cube

  • redi cube and mosaic cube

  • master kilominx

  • gear cube


Results are only viewable after voting.

Iwannaganx

Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2019
Messages
464
Location
Victoria, Australia
Oh yeah, didn't think of that. But they do that in inspection so wouldn't 2BLD still be different? The times would be closer to 5-10 seconds instead of 1-2 seconds...
But yeah only thought of that now oops
 

OreKehStrah

Member
Joined
May 24, 2019
Messages
121
I have a notation ready, expect a thread on it soon so people can experiment with it a little
Okay, I think it’ll be cool to see where it goes. Again I think I should state that I’m not opposed to jumbling. I just think that initially adding curvy copter would be better/ easier to not use jumbling because I think it would simplify its implementation into the WCA. I think it would be cool although probably a bit redundant to have two events: one with and one without jumbling. That way the people who want jumbling can organize it and smaller comps don’t have to have the headache jumbling scrambles May cause.
 

Aerma

Premium Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2017
Messages
1,221
Location
Galar Region
WCA
2015MANN01
YouTube
Aerma
Kilominx isn't nearly as luck-heavy as those other events. How frequently do you see stuff like a one-move layer? That's right, the answer is basically never, even if you're full CN. (Back-of-the-envelope calculation says it's around 1/31000, which is less than the probability of getting a 4-move 222 scramble (1/1989), a 7-move skewb scramble (1/9.8), a 6-move pyra scramble (1/414), a ≤9-move Redi scramble (1/4365), or a one-move cross on 3×3×3 (1/1987), and also pretty close to a full cross skip on 3×3×3 (~1/32000).)

It's analogous to a 2×2×2 in the sense that it has only corners. It is absolutely not analogous in the sense that it has a small state space, which it doesn't: the state space is much smaller than a megaminx's, sure, but still a few orders of magnitude larger than a 3×3×3's.



I know jack about the edge-turning puzzles (i.e. I might be very wrong here) but it honestly wouldn't seem too difficult to come up with a scrambler. Just do it like a square-1: pick a random shape according to the Markov steady-state distribution, then fill in the pieces, and finally solve and invert.

… And then I did a bit of searching and found this TP thread about enumerating the possible shapes, and (i) it seems very nontrivial (unlike a square-1, which doesn't jumble) and (ii) it seems to be mechanism-dependent (see also Jaap's Puzzle Page's note about how you might be able to force a technically-illegal turn through on the Curvy Copter). Also, it might suffer from the opposite problem of lolscrambles: with "proper" scrambling (whatever "proper" means), you can occasionally get shapes that are much more difficult than usual to solve. (Kinda like how, on a square-1, kite-square is a really annoying shape to deal with for people who are still using beginner cubeshape methods? Except that a Curvy Copter has so many different shapes that it's not realistic for anyone to just learn them all.)

(This is all very interesting and I am now compelled to get a Curvy Copter for myself.)
Thanks for taking the time to respond to me :) I then take back my point on how Kilominx would be primarily luck-based. I still don't think it adds much to the table, just being a more simple megaminx with different LL algs, but if there was enough push I'd be happy if they added it as an official event.
If someone were to create a random-state scrambler for Curvy Copter, including jumbling, without the scrambles being too long and with decent notation, I think it would be a great help in the push to get it added as an official attempt. The only roadblock after that is creating the scramble images. How would you do that for a jumbling puzzle without them being too complicated to check?
 

VIBE_ZT

Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2019
Messages
48
Location
Massachusetts
WCA
2018TRUD02
We should make an unofficial competition (possibly on the forum) with curvy copter on it. This could test out the notation/see if it is realistic to hold officially.
Once someone comes up with a notation for it, someone should post a thread on which they leave scrambles and host said competition. Then maybe competitors could leave feedback on how it went, if they had problems, if they liked it, ect. Would be interesting.
Cubing is always evolving, and I think that this could be interesting.
 
Joined
Oct 17, 2017
Messages
194
Location
Here
WCA
2018OLSE04
Okay, I think it’ll be cool to see where it goes. Again I think I should state that I’m not opposed to jumbling. I just think that initially adding curvy copter would be better/ easier to not use jumbling because I think it would simplify its implementation into the WCA. I think it would be cool although probably a bit redundant to have two events: one with and one without jumbling. That way the people who want jumbling can organize it and smaller comps don’t have to have the headache jumbling scrambles May cause.
Frankly I don't think jumbling would cause that much of a headache. Like squan, it would be the case that the majority of the scramble would keep the cube in it's default shape and only the last few moves would jumble it. I don't think there are any shapes that are very many moves from cubes, so I don't think it will be any harder than squan.
Thanks for taking the time to respond to me :) I then take back my point on how Kilominx would be primarily luck-based. I still don't think it adds much to the table, just being a more simple megaminx with different LL algs, but if there was enough push I'd be happy if they added it as an official event.
If someone were to create a random-state scrambler for Curvy Copter, including jumbling, without the scrambles being too long and with decent notation, I think it would be a great help in the push to get it added as an official attempt. The only roadblock after that is creating the scramble images. How would you do that for a jumbling puzzle without them being too complicated to check?
Generating a 3D image showing 3 faces would probably be doable and good enough.
I have tried 4x4 FMC. It is HARD.
Would probably take a long time for a decent attempt, so I'm not sure how many competitions would hold it.

Interesting, though. Maybe on the Speedsolving forum comp?
It was formerly an event in the weekly competition but it has since been removed because it's hard.
 

CurlyFries

Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2019
Messages
31
WCA
2015BURE01
either where there's a team of 2 and one person tells the other blindfolded person what to do or a team's given a random amount of cubes and have to solve them all correctly. I really don't know but I thought it was a cool idea
Team Blind refers to the first idea, one person blindfolded, one giving instructions.
It is interesting to think how the results would be tracked and the best “speed” method. Would the instructor say letter pairs to execute or would they say how to do each F2L pair. This would also bring up the need for people to learn the names of each case, like the number for each case as labeled in algDB or something.
 

Mike Hughey

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jun 7, 2007
Messages
9,920
Location
Indianapolis
WCA
2007HUGH01
YouTube
MikeHughey1
It was formerly an event in the weekly competition but it has since been removed because it's hard.
I wouldn't necessarily say it was removed because it was hard. It was removed because it wasn't very popular.

We allowed 2.5 hours for an attempt. I competed many times in it, and really rather enjoyed it. But it does take an awful lot of time. Many weeks I was the only one who competed in it. I would say the average participant count was somewhere around 2 people per week. Not far off what 7BLD is now, actually.
 

Sion

Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2015
Messages
784
Location
New York
Curvy copter is our best bet, since not much is known about it outside of rudimentary beginner level methods and ironically since not many people actually do it, meaning there's less of a chance that we will reach optimal times before the event is officialized (as in the case of redi and kilo). Curvy would definitely be a much more even playing field.
 
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