[Help Thread] 4x4 Discussion

[LBr]

I have a competition in 3 weeks, and the cutoff for 4x4 is 1:10. As of right now, I average 1:15 and occasionally get sub 1:10.

If there’s any tips you guys have that can make me improve ~5 seconds on 4x4 quickly, could you tell me thanks

Also here is a multi-phase solve that I did for an example:

First 2 Centers: 4.01
3 Cross edges: 12.72
Last 4 centers; 26.73
Edge Pairing: 41.87
F2L: 48.22
OLL (parity): 56.41
PLL (parity): 1:04.96

what got me from sub 1 to sub 55 was looking ahead in the stages involving edges (Yau edges, edge pairing after centres), working on that makes the solve smoother

 

[GodCubing]

I tried it a few years ago. It's okay but doesn't seem ideal; you need to be able to distinguish the two wings (which ones belong in the second layer versus in the third layer), which might be especially difficult if you're at least dual CN.

Edge pairing should be pretty straightforward: slice to make pair, replace, slice back to make another pair. Basically the "2-3" in Yau's 3-2-3 pairing, repeated until all the edges are paired.

Ok, thanks. I was wondering whether there was a better way to do edge pairing. Also, can I skip some of EO?

 

[xyzzy]

Ok, thanks. I was wondering whether there was a better way to do edge pairing. Also, can I skip some of EO?

You have five edge pairs already done, which is as much as you'll be "skipping".

It looks like most human-usable edge pairing methods that try to simultaneously pair edges and solve EO are awful in one way or another. It's theoretically possible to gen algs for this (L3E + EO of all dedges has ~50-100 cases if you set up the two/three unpaired edges to fixed locations), though the software doesn't exist yet and half of the cases will be 14+ moves long because of parity. Easier to just solve EO on its own after reduction is done; I believe the 4Z4 method does that too.

 

[GodCubing]

You have five edge pairs already done, which is as much as you'll be "skipping".

It looks like most human-usable edge pairing methods that try to simultaneously pair edges and solve EO are awful in one way or another. It's theoretically possible to gen algs for this (L3E + EO of all dedges has ~50-100 cases if you set up the two/three unpaired edges to fixed locations), though the software doesn't exist yet and half of the cases will be 14+ moves long because of parity. Easier to just solve EO on its own after reduction is done; I believe the 4Z4 method does that too.

Ur supposed to do EO after getting to 3x3 stage, but I don't. Thanks!

 

[CFOPSubber]

If i have smaller hands, which 4x4 should i get?

 

[LBr]

for smallish hands - aosu wrm
for tiny hands, zhisu mini

 

[Waffles]

for smallish hands - aosu wrm
for tiny hands, zhisu mini

The YJ mini is actually really good even if you don’t have tiny hands, but it wouldn’t be any good for someone with big hands

 

[oneshot]

Can someone give me the easiest oll parity for when it’s just one edge is flipped? I’m old and apparently stupid so I don need the fastest, just the easiest. Thanks

 

[xyzzy]

Can someone give me the easiest oll parity for when it’s just one edge is flipped? I’m old and apparently stupid so I don need the fastest, just the easiest. Thanks

Do you mean a "pure" OLL parity alg (flip one edge pair, affect nothing else) or just a plain old OLL parity alg (flip one edge pair, possibly move around some corners)?

If you mean the latter, here's one found by Christopher Mowla (adapted for fingertricks):
x' u' (R' u R F2)5 u x

If you mean the former, do any normal OLL parity alg then fix whatever needs fixing afterwards.

 

[GodCubing]

If you mean the former, do any normal OLL parity alg then fix whatever needs fixing afterwards.

There are pure OLL parity algs you know

 

[xyzzy]

There are pure OLL parity algs you know

I don't know why you'd think I don't know.

Yes, there are algs to solve it directly. I even know a handful! But would writing out one of those algs actually answer the request for an alg that is easy to learn?

 

[GodCubing]

But would writing out one of those algs actually answer the request for an alg that is easy to learn?

Yes, at least for me. When I ask for an alg I want one. I guess I'm just a very straightforward person and read this a little to literally

Can someone give me the easiest oll parity for when it’s just one edge is flipped? I’m old and apparently stupid so I don need the fastest, just the easiest. Thanks

https://speedcubedb.com/a/4x4/OLLParity/Purelook through these algs and pick one

 

[xyzzy]

https://speedcubedb.com/a/4x4/OLLParity/Pure look through these algs and pick one

Okay, come on, this isn't even answering the same question. Have you even looked at what the algs on that page do? Despite the title, most of them are not pure single dedge flips.

Yes, at least for me. When I ask for an alg I want one. I guess I'm just a very straightforward person and read this a little to literally

Yeah, and maybe if you asked without also explicitly prioritising ease-of-learning over everything else, that's how I would have answered. But you weren't the one who asked.

 

[GodCubing]

Okay, come on, this isn't even answering the same question. Have you even looked at what the algs on that page do? Despite the title, most of them are not pure single dedge flips.


Yeah, and maybe if you asked without also explicitly prioritising ease-of-learning over everything else, that's how I would have answered. But you weren't the one who asked.

Fair

 

[Christopher Mowla]

Can someone give me the easiest oll parity for when it’s just one edge is flipped? I’m old and apparently stupid so I don need the fastest, just the easiest. Thanks

It probably cannot get any easier than something like these:
Uw'
m F
U' 2R' U F2
U' 2R' U F2
U' 2R' U F2
U' 2R' U F2
U' 2R' U F2
F m'
Uw
[Link]

Uw L' R
L' U' 2R U L U2
L' U' 2R U L U2
L' U' 2R U L U2
L' U' 2R U L U2
L' U' 2R U L U2
U2
L R' Uw'
[Link]

Uw' L' R
R2 U' 2R U R2 U2
R2 U' 2R U R2 U2
R2 U' 2R U R2 U2
R2 U' 2R U R2 U2
R2 U' 2R U R2 U2
U2
L R' Uw
[Link]

They are just (2R U2)4 2R with 1-2 setup moves around the 2R move.

Spoiler

(2R U2)4 2R
=
2R U2
2R U2
2R U2
2R U2
2R
=
2R U2
2R U2
2R U2
2R U2
2R U2
U2

So if you add, say, the setup moves R2 U' before every 2R and undo with U R2, you get:
R2 U' 2R U R2 U2
R2 U' 2R U R2 U2
R2 U' 2R U R2 U2
R2 U' 2R U R2 U2
R2 U' 2R U R2 U2
U2

And then do a few conjugates to make a single dedge flip:
Uw' L' R
R2 U' 2R U R2 U2
R2 U' 2R U R2 U2
R2 U' 2R U R2 U2
R2 U' 2R U R2 U2
R2 U' 2R U R2 U2
U2
L R' Uw

It's possible that the entire sequence is what's repeated except for one move, but it's nastier.
(2L' B2 2L B2 U2 F2 D2 2L D2 F2)4 2R'

And it's possible that all of the moves of the alg are the result of a repeated sequence, but those can be very long:
(3Uw' Rw2 3Uw2 Rw2 3Uw2 Rw 3Uw2 Rw' 3Uw2 Rw)15

And even longer if the sequence that is repeated is shorter!
(3Uw' Rw2 3Uw Rw 3Uw' Rw' 3Uw2 Rw)585

_________________________________________________________
EDIT:

If you happen to know the PLL parity algorithm: 2R2 F2 U2 2R2 U2 F2 2R2

Then if you make the middle move a quarter turn, a very easy alg to remember can be made from it also:

1. Do the first bit: 2R2 F2 U2 2R U2 F2 2R2
   
   
2. Do the move F2: 2R2 F2 U2 2R U2 F2 2R2 (F2)
   
   
3. Do the sequence to swap two adjacent centers (like in reduction):
   2R2 F2 U2 2R U2 F2 2R2 (F2)(2L' U2 2L 2R U2 2R')
   
   
4. Do the obvious finishing move (F2) and then add two setup moves (the same setup moves as those in first algs listed in this post).
   (Rw' s) 2R2 F2 U2 2R U2 F2 2R2 (F2)(2L' U2 2L 2R U2 2R')(F2) (s' Rw)

But that's all I've got.

 

[Garf]

Well, you should know drew and/or lucas parity, with preference to lucas parity, as fingerticking is better.
Drew: r2 B2 U2 l U2 r' U2 r U2 F2 r F2 l' B2 r2
Lucas: Rw U2 x Rw U2 Rw U2 Rw' U2 Lw U2 Rw' U2 Rw U2 Rw' U2 Rw'

 

[Christopher Mowla]

Well, you should know drew and/or lucas parity, with preference to lucas parity, as fingerticking is better.
Drew: r2 B2 U2 l U2 r' U2 r U2 F2 r F2 l' B2 r2
Lucas: Rw U2 x Rw U2 Rw U2 Rw' U2 Lw U2 Rw' U2 Rw U2 Rw' U2 Rw'

He specifically mentioned that he's not interested in speed . . .

 

[Garf]

He specifically mentioned that he's not interested in speed . . .

Well, maybe he doesn't need the fingetricks, but they are still stupidly easy to learn, and you don't have to be fast to use them. All I am saying it is easier to develop better turning habits if he uses Lucas and/or Drew.

 

[Christopher Mowla]

Well, maybe he doesn't need the fingetricks, but they are still stupidly easy to learn, and you don't have to be fast to use them. All I am saying it is easier to develop better turning habits if he uses Lucas and/or Drew.

Don't you think that it's very possible that he has seen those (since they are all around the internet)? He's clearly looking for an alternative to the well-known algs. They are not what he defines as "easy".

So it's called "Drew" now? How did that come to be?

 

[Garf]

I don’t know. I just got it from J-Perms vids on 4x4. Drew parity and Lucas parity.