[Help Thread] 4x4 Discussion

[IamSpeedcubing]

I am CN on 3x3, so that wouyld help, and I can do CN centers.

 

[IamSpeedcubing]

So, should i not wait with yau?

 

[sqAree]

Definitely not. You may have the feeling it's better to wait, but most certainly it's not.
When I switched from reduction to yau my times were significantly worse at first, and I had the feeling I went through the whole improving process another time and using reduction before felt wasted.

Accordingly, there's also nothing wrong with learning OLL "too" soon.

 

[IamSpeedcubing]

Ok. I will practice a bit more and learn yau. Also, what do you average on 4x4? Using what?

 

[sqAree]

I use yau and average ~1:40 but I haven't practised for quite a few weeks.

Without using yau I could never get better than ~2:10.

 

[IamSpeedcubing]

Why were my posts moved? I did mention the reason for making that thread, so whoever reported it did not read what I said

 

[One Wheel]

Why were my posts moved? I did mention the reason for making that thread, so whoever reported it did not read what I said

Probably because even if the help you are looking for wasn't already on this thread, this is where it should be, so that the next time somebody comes looking for that information it's all in the same place.

As far as what everybody else is saying on learning Yau: yes. I was running 3:10-3:30 with reduction. When I switched to Yau my first few solves were in the 4-6 minute range, with within 100-150 solves I was down to about 2:40-2:50, and now after a further ~800 I'm running 2:00-2:10. I'm a pretty slow cuber, it seems, so I'm sure you'd be able to make progress a lot faster than I have. I've tried Hoya a little bit, but I honestly can't see what's so great about it. Maybe I just haven't given it a fair shot, but I prefer the freedom of 4 unsolved centers when making my cross edges, and only having 3 cross edges done when finishing centers. I suspect that an ideal method will have to do with how far you can look ahead. Somebody who is really good could, probably, see the first two centers and the first cross edge in inspection, find the remaining cross edges while executing the first two centers, etc. I find it hard to believe that anyone could find more than 3 or possibly 4 centers in inspection. This is my guess as to why it seems that most of the very fastest people use Yau over Hoya (not that there aren't some very fast Hoya solvers out there).

 

[shadowslice e]

@One Wheel, I disagree. The main reason why people use yau over Hoya as far as I can tell is the same reason people use CFOP over Roux; it's more common and what everyone uses. I would say that I am also fairly unbiased in this as I am basically fully method neutral on 4x4 for Hoya, Yau and Meyer with each in the 55-1.05 range.

 

[One Wheel]

@One Wheel, I disagree. The main reason why people use yau over Hoya as far as I can tell is the same reason people use CFOP over Roux; it's more common and what everyone uses. I would say that I am also fairly unbiased in this as I am basically fully method neutral on 4x4 for Hoya, Yau and Meyer with each in the 55-1.05 range.

But why did CFOP and Yau become popular in the first place? You may well be right, and you are certainly more qualified than I am to make a "definitive" judgment. I'm just not convinced, although I realize that it ultimately comes down to personal preference. Yau and Hoya (and Meyer, although I'm not all that familiar with it; "Yau for Roux" is all I've heard) are good methods, without a doubt. I'm sure that the very best cubers could do any of them under 35 seconds, probably even under 30. I just think that Yau is probably better suited to theoretically optimal lookahead, and therefore holds more potential for pushing world record times down.

 

[Malkom]

I want to start speedsolving 4x4 and it seems like yau and hoya are the 2 main methods, whats the biggest pros and cons of both methods and which is easiest to learn for a complete noob on big cubes.

 

[shadowslice e]

Hoya: easier lookahead, don't have to switch between different set of pieces when planning inspection, less rotations (ish), easier to influence L8E, easier to preserve prepaired Dedges after F4C
Yau: more efficient, good lookahead if you get used to switching between planning different types of pieces though I will say Hoya is still easier, no "redundant" moves (ie less setup), more research and tutorials (if you want hat sort of thing)

 

[Chree]

Hoya: easier lookahead, don't have to switch between different set of pieces when planning inspection, less rotations (ish), easier to influence L8E, easier to preserve prepaired Dedges after F4C
Yau: more efficient, good lookahead if you get used to switching between planning different types of pieces though I will say Hoya is still easier, no "redundant" moves (ie less setup), more research and tutorials (if you want hat sort of thing)

Yau is not necessarily more efficient than Hoya.
https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/hoya-discussion.45461/page-24#post-1174672

Also, can you expand on how it's easier to influence L8E? Do you mean Hodder/Hoya5? There are some cases that I still hate and should really try finding better solutions for.

 

[shadowslice e]

Yau is not necessarily more efficient than Hoya.
https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/threads/hoya-discussion.45461/page-24#post-1174672

Fair enough, but I still think that for most people starting out Yau will usually be more efficient

Also, can you expand on how it's easier to influence L8E? Do you mean Hodder/Hoya5? There are some cases that I still hate and should really try finding better solutions for.

I just mean that it's easier to preserve edges or stuff like that so you can do 3-3 edge pairing and stuff like that which is harder to do on Yau because of the way the centres are finished.

 

[Chree]

I just mean that it's easier to preserve edges or stuff like that so you can do 3-3 edge pairing and stuff like that which is harder to do on Yau because of the way the centres are finished.

That's a really good point, actually.

 

[supercavitation]

@One Wheel, I disagree. The main reason why people use yau over Hoya as far as I can tell is the same reason people use CFOP over Roux; it's more common and what everyone uses. I would say that I am also fairly unbiased in this as I am basically fully method neutral on 4x4 for Hoya, Yau and Meyer with each in the 55-1.05 range.

I may be weird, but I switched from Hoya to Yau and from Roux to CFOP, and got significantly faster pretty quickly in both cases. I liked the order of the steps a lot more with Yau, and solves were just overall more fun. I switched to CFOP for the lookahead.

EDIT: On a re-read, I realize that you said "the main reason," not "the reason." Ignore me.

 

[xchippy]

Well even if hoya is slightly better than yau it's probably better to go with yau because there is a lot more resources since it is more popular and you'd learn more tricks and stuff making you faster

 

[akeel47]

Hi can someone send me links preferably videos to 4x4 tutorials. Is there a "beginners method" I should know first?

 

[shadowslice e]

The only real "beginner's method" is Pure redux though an adapted form of K4 or similar LBL could work.

 

[xchippy]

Hi can someone send me links preferably videos to 4x4 tutorials. Is there a "beginners method" I should know first?

 

[SuperZecton]

what does 2Rw2 mean and does the lowercase mean anything. Which notation is the most commonly used thanks in advance
oh and what does r represent in wca notation