[Help Thread] Xcross Tips and Discussion

[byu]

I've gotten at least 5 sub-20 singles, but I'm definitely not sub-20 average, am I allowed to vote?

 

[ThePizzaGuy92]

I'm sub20, I only use an x-cross whenever I can't find a good cross. Multi-slotting is hard.

I use a different colored cross when i can't find one, I don't like block building unless it's incredibly easy

i average 13/14 btw [using none of these seemingly useless methods

 

[Faz]

Average 12-14 and I don't use any fancy techniques - maybe an x-cross once in a while 1/50 solves ish?

 

[whauk]

if there is one cross edge connected to a corner i always look for the other edge to make a x-cross but i only really do it if it requires not more then 10 or 9 moves. if it gets to complicated i often mess up. i am hardly using multislotting only when i see that in the slot in that i just insert a f2l pair has already another one in it i use an alg that doesnt destroy it.

 

[Stefan]

You know, when just solving the cross you *accidentally* get an xcross about once in 100 solves. According to my statistic of 10000 solves and to 1/(1-(1-1/24/16)**4) = 96.38.

 

[Lord Voldemort]

That's interesting.
Where's the math from?
(The formula and stuff)
I sometimes just like to calulate this stuff out when brainstorming theoretical methods.

 

[Stefan]

Does that formula really need to be explained?

 

[tim]

That's interesting.
Where's the math from?
(The formula and stuff)
I sometimes just like to calulate this stuff out when brainstorming theoretical methods.

Hint:
24 = 8 * 3
16 = (12 - 4) * 2

 

[cmhardw]

I don't feel I would be as fast as I am without Xcross. Because of dual solving (solving either white or yellow) I use Xcross fairly frequently. If I solve on only one color I do Xcross about 25% of the time. For my definition of Xcross see below. Using that I do Xcross roughly 1-(1-0.25)^2 = 43% of the time solving white or yellow.

I consider Xcross to be either:
1) seeing the direct solve to the Xcross during inspection
2) seeing the solve for the 2x2x2 and one other cross edge during inspection, with intention to locate and place the 4th cross edge during the solving phase.
3) seeing the solve for the 2x2x2 during inspection while making sure that the solution for the 2x2x2 puts the other 2 cross edges in a "good" position. A good position means easy to solve in relatively few moves.
4) Seeing the solve for the cross during inspection that either builds or preserves a c/e pair. For these solves you usually know how to place the pair during inspection as well.
5) Seeing the solve for the cross and one corner during inspection, with intention to locate and place the F2L edge during the solving phase using keyhole.
6) Seeing the solve for the cross and one F2L edge during inspection, with intention to locate and place the corresponding corner during the solving phase using keyhole.

I practice Xcross by doing slow solves where I try to locate a short or semi-short Xcross (following one of the above definitions of Xcross). When I first started doing Xcross I printed a long list of scrambles, and did the solve and wrote down how many moves I took to do it. This way you can track your progress to see if you are doing it in fewer moves.

Try to break down your Xcross solving into one of the above categories, but try to focus on all 6. Also I recommend to use dual solving if you really like Xcross, because it increases your chances to do Xcross during the solve.

Chris

 

[toast]

I'm sub20, I only use an x-cross whenever I can't find a good cross. Multi-slotting is hard.

I use a different colored cross when i can't find one, I don't like block building unless it's incredibly easy

i average 13/14 btw [using none of these seemingly useless methods

I'm color neutral so this is only when it's really crappy on all sides.

 

[DavidWoner]

I only multislot when the cases are obvious. its usually something similar to this:

set-up: R' U' F R F'

solve: F R' F' U R

I do this kind of stuff a lot more during OH, when I am going slower and can see this stuff easily.

Sometimes I will keyhole a corner or edge to make an x-cross if its obvious, but I never really go out of the way to make one.

 

[Leviticus]

I occasionally make an x-cross, if i see a cross colour edge and corner together i may make an x-cross. If theres the two edges next to the edge, permuted of coarse, i will make an x-cross.

EDIT: I average 13-15 seconds.

 

[blah]

I only multislot when the cases are obvious. its usually something similar to this:

set-up: R' U' F R F'

solve: F R' F' U R

That's not multislotting. That's just an alg you memorized and understood.

At least it's not the multislotting the inventors intended it to be. Most people don't bother to find out what multislotting is. The word "multislotting" on its own is very misleading. It's not the technique of inserting 2 slots with 1 "alg". It's what someone said earlier: Simplifying the insertion of a subsequent pair while inserting a pair, with a little tweaking.

 

[Escher]

That's not multislotting. That's just an alg you memorized and understood.

At least it's not the multislotting the inventors intended it to be. Most people don't bother to find out what multislotting is. The word "multislotting" on its own is very misleading. It's not the technique of inserting 2 slots with 1 "alg". It's what someone said earlier: Simplifying the insertion of a subsequent pair while inserting a pair, with a little tweaking.

thanks, i think you put this a bit clearer than i was doing
i know i don't understand multislotting (particularly well, anyway), but at least i understand the term as it was originally meant to be used :rolleyes:

 

[Unscarred1925]

I don't feel I would be as fast as I am without Xcross. Because of dual solving (solving either white or yellow) I use Xcross fairly frequently. If I solve on only one color I do Xcross about 25% of the time. For my definition of Xcross see below. Using that I do Xcross roughly 1-(1-0.25)^2 = 43% of the time solving white or yellow.

I consider Xcross to be either:
1) seeing the direct solve to the Xcross during inspection
2) seeing the solve for the 2x2x2 and one other cross edge during inspection, with intention to locate and place the 4th cross edge during the solving phase.
3) seeing the solve for the 2x2x2 during inspection while making sure that the solution for the 2x2x2 puts the other 2 cross edges in a "good" position. A good position means easy to solve in relatively few moves.
4) Seeing the solve for the cross during inspection that either builds or preserves a c/e pair. For these solves you usually know how to place the pair during inspection as well.
5) Seeing the solve for the cross and one corner during inspection, with intention to locate and place the F2L edge during the solving phase using keyhole.
6) Seeing the solve for the cross and one F2L edge during inspection, with intention to locate and place the corresponding corner during the solving phase using keyhole.

I practice Xcross by doing slow solves where I try to locate a short or semi-short Xcross (following one of the above definitions of Xcross). When I first started doing Xcross I printed a long list of scrambles, and did the solve and wrote down how many moves I took to do it. This way you can track your progress to see if you are doing it in fewer moves.

Try to break down your Xcross solving into one of the above categories, but try to focus on all 6. Also I recommend to use dual solving if you really like Xcross, because it increases your chances to do Xcross during the solve.

Chris

Thanks Chris, since I decided to shift to XCross and solving neutral to white and yellow just this week, this is all I need, an exact definition. I have just one question, do you have an average number of moves/turns based on the six XCross considerations?

 

[RyanReese09]

Xcross

I've read about 5 threads here, 3 videos from the weston, and i have some questions

I know you put a cross peice in then match the corner up with that, thus making 2x2x1, setup the other cross peice to be inserted in one move, and then get the corner setup in there?

the weston does a horrible job at explaining ive tried doing several xcrosses on random scrambles, ive heard it is 11movemax to get one

am i misunderstanding something? or is this normal for new xcross'ers? btw I am cn

 

[AngeL]

Do you have any previous experience with Blockbuilding? Learning at least the basics would help quite a bit. Basically, you want to do whatever you need to do to set it up efficiently. There aren't really any rules, you have to use your intuition.

The best thing you can do for blocks or Xcrosses is to stop timing yourself or trying to go fast at all for a while. Go as slow as you need, but OPTIMIZE. Set up your Xcross in as few moves as you possibly can, even if it takes an hour. Keep doing it over and over and you'll start to see the solutions more and more quickly. Eventually the speed will come, THEN you can start timing yourself again.

And yes, it is very normal to be extremely frustrated with any sort of blockbuilding technique when you first start. I've been using Roux for almost two months and my blocks are still fail. If I have good blocks, I get low 40s or high 30s. If my blocks are bad, I get 50 or 60, lol.

 

[AndyRoo789]

I only do X-Cross when it looks easy.

 

[Edward]

You use any kind of blockbuilding to make a 2x2x2 block, and the rest of the cross. Nothing really to misunderstand there...

 

[RyanReese09]

ah, ive never done blockbuilding before. i went str8 into cfop.

i don t time myself w/ xcross. and i wont use it every solve in competitions or otherwise, this is just so i CAN

thanks for the advice