# [Help Thread]Finger Tricks Discussion and Help

#### PetrusQuber

##### Member
How do I do B or B’ without regrip? Is there a way?
Don’t think there really is a way. I mean, there are always ways, but unlike F, it’s just more efficient to regrip and act like it’s D in almost every situation.

#### Megaminx lover

##### Member
Agreed. the only algorithm I use B or B' is the OLL R' U' R U' R' U y' R' U R B, but that's because my hand is already at the correct position to do the B move.

#### BenChristman1

##### Member
Agreed. the only algorithm I use B or B' is the OLL R' U' R U' R' U y' R' U R B, but that's because my hand is already at the correct position to do the B move.
I think that if you use an OLL with a B move and a rotation, you just need to switch algs.

R U R2 U' R' F R U R U' F' seems like a pretty good alg.

#### oneshot

##### Member
Thanks! Don’t know why I couldn’t figure that out by myself, but it really helped. BTW, I do use roux and had trouble with inserting the first back left block. Thanks again

#### Dan the Beginner

I am a slow-learning beginner, and I want to start learning finger tricks so that I can turn a little bit faster, but not so fast that I have to learn a lot of long algorithms at this early stage of my journey.

The Sune is very important in the basic methods I use, but I find it hard (whether using the ring finger or my pinkie for the second U). I want to try to use the left forefinger to do U, as they seem to work OK for me when needed for particular algorithms, but that clearly needs practise. After some research, I think this is what I want to do (below), but please tell me if you think it is not so good and why. The double Sune is a simplified form of (R U R' U R U2 R) x 2 and it is used often enough (when I get 2 pairs of headlights in OLL) for me to practise the short form.

(A Bold U below means using left forefinger to do the U).
Sune
(R U R' U) (R U2 R)​
Sune x2
(R U R' U) (R U R' U) (R U2 R)​
Another problem I have is with the U-Perms. Those F and F' turns are awkward when I try to turn faster, but I like the M moves, they are easy and fun for me to do. I just found these alternatives and I believe they would work well. Am I right that they will be better?

U-Perms
Now using these,​
F2 U M' U2 M U F2​
F2 U' M' U2 M U' F2​

but thinking of changing to the ones below instead:​
M2 U' M U2 M' U' M2​
M2 U M U2 M' U M2​
Please comment or suggest what I should consider or change to. I want to take it slowly, i.e. learning gradually and enjoy the journey and not having to work too hard to get really fast quickly. I will be very happy if I could solve within a minute with these changes and with more focussed practise/drills. (currently averaging 1:30 using basic methods).

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#### Cubing Forever

##### Member
For double Sune, I actually recommend doing double Antisune instead(R U2 R' U' R U R' U' R U' R').

For Sune, I recommend doing the bolded U with right ring instead of left forefinger.

For the second U perm, instead of M2 U M U2 M' U M2 , you can do U2 M2 U' M' U2 M U' M2 which has easier fingertricks.

I recommend watching this if you're learning fingrertricks:

#### Dan the Beginner

Thank you CubingForever for the video and comments. I will study them.

Your recommendation for U-Perm (counterclockwise) is great, i.e. to use U2 M2 U' M' U2 M U' M2 instead of M2 U M U2 M' U M2. It works well, even though there are more turns.

As for Sune, I am still struggling when I try to use the ring finger for the second U. I think it is because I use a different grip than what Jperm did in his video. My thumb is at the bottom and the forefinger and ring fingers re on top of the cube at the start. His grip (starting with the thumb at the front) is unnatural for me to do especially with the next U. I will practise these alternatives more and see how I go

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#### xyzzy

##### Member
R U R2 U' R' F R U R U' F' seems like a pretty good alg.
f R f' U' r' U' R U M'

the only algorithm I use B or B' is the OLL R' U' R U' R' U y' R' U R B
I think that if you use an OLL with a B move and a rotation, you just need to switch algs.
This alg without the rotation is already RUF: R' U' R U' R' U F' U F R.

I personally use the inverse R' F' U' F U' R U R' U R (solves exactly the same 1LLL, just at a different AUF), with right thumb for the F'.

I am a slow-learning beginner, and I want to start learning finger tricks so that I can turn a little bit faster, but not so fast that I have to learn a lot of long algorithms at this early stage of my journey.

The Sune is very important in the basic methods I use, but I find it hard (whether using the ring finger or my pinkie for the second U). I want to try to use the left forefinger to do U, as they seem to work OK for me when needed for particular algorithms, but that clearly needs practise. After some research, I think this is what I want to do (below), but please tell me if you think it is not so good and why.
I think it is because I use a different grip than what Jperm did in his video. My thumb is at the bottom and the forefinger and ring fingers re on top of the cube at the start. His grip (starting with the thumb at the front) is unnatural for me to do especially with the next U.
Home grip is where you have both thumbs at the front, and in general, most last layer algs are meant to be executed starting and ending in home grip, without any regrips. In home grip, both of your hands are in position to do U, U' and U2 moves, which allows you to spread the load across your hands better and avoid overworking one hand.

Sune can reasonably be executed from home grip or from thumb on bottom; these are the key differences:

Home grip:
- The U2 has to be done with your left hand, so you need to be fluent with lefty double flicks. Also, using a lefty double flick forces you to change your left hand grip from the default thumb+middle to thumb+ring.
- There are three ways to execute the two U moves (R U R' U R U2 R'): left index then right index, right index then right middle, and right index twice. The last one is bad because it overworks the right index. The first two are both good, but I much prefer the first one since it doesn't need harder fingertricks.
- Ends in home grip.

Bottom grip:
- The U2 can be done with either hand, since your hands are in home grip at that point. As above, if you use your left hand, you'll need a minor regrip for your left hand to do the double flick, but if you use your right hand, you can just start the alg by using your thumb+ring to grip the R layer and avoid an additional regrip.
- The first U can be executed with a normal right index flick; the second one has to be executed with your left index. (Or! You can drag the whole top layer with your right hand, but this leaves your right hand in a weird position and you can't cleanly execute a righty U2 from there.)
- Does not end in home grip.

For double Sune, I actually recommend doing double Antisune instead(R U2 R' U' R U R' U' R U' R').
If you're starting in home grip, double Sune is a bit better than double Antisune.

#### Dan the Beginner

Thanks xyzzy. So much for me to digest and work on! I appreciate your detailed above and instructions.

#### Dan the Beginner

Does anyone else find the M move hard to do fast? I am right handed and I have watched the finger trick video. I have tried using the ring finger (hopeless), and the forefinger (OK but awkward and it takes time for the finger to recover for the next time, esp when it has to do a U). I ended up using the thumb, which is also OK but slow as the grip changes too much. Just now, I thought of doing this, using M'3 instead of M, using in turn the pinkie, ring and middle finger. It's also slow but seems OK, and I like the flow when doing it, i.e not as jerky as when I have to do an M, using whichever finger. What do you think? For example, for U-PERM, I can do

M'2 U' M'3 U'2 M' U' M'2

Using M'3 for U-Perm A is a little less satisfactory, as the right hand is used for all the turns until the M'3. Any advice? Are there alternatives ways of doing these U-Perms, hopefully they also have M' turns, which is fun to do.

#### zzoomer

##### Member
I would suggest you continue practicing M with ring finger. If you are using Roux, this fingertrick is important. Eventually you'll master it.

You also could use the RU U perms.

#### Spacey10

##### Member
Does anyone else find the M move hard to do fast? I am right handed and I have watched the finger trick video. I have tried using the ring finger (hopeless), and the forefinger (OK but awkward and it takes time for the finger to recover for the next time, esp when it has to do a U). I ended up using the thumb, which is also OK but slow as the grip changes too much. Just now, I thought of doing this, using M'3 instead of M, using in turn the pinkie, ring and middle finger. It's also slow but seems OK, and I like the flow when doing it, i.e not as jerky as when I have to do an M, using whichever finger. What do you think? For example, for U-PERM, I can do

M'2 U' M'3 U'2 M' U' M'2

Using M'3 for U-Perm A is a little less satisfactory, as the right hand is used for all the turns until the M'3. Any advice? Are there alternatives ways of doing these U-Perms, hopefully they also have M' turns, which is fun to do.
something i did when i was learning the MU u perms was doing a quick L, R', or L', R. From there you can slowly work yourself up to using you middle finger to push back the layer. but the thumb trick will not be good in the future, you should probably not do it.
if you have a lot of trouble with these, try using RU u perms. many fast people use these as well.

#### Dan the Beginner

I am glad I asked. So, the thumb is not good, as I suspected, and it's a matter of time and practise. Thanks. Will try harder with the ring finger (which is easier than the middle finger for me) and see.

#### TheEpicCuber

##### Member
Also, if you do a right handed U perm, then that means you do the M moves and M2 flicks with you left hand. For example of Ub, which algorithm I use is M2 U M U2 M' U M2, you start with a M2 flick with your left hand using ring and middle fingers, U with right index, left middle finger pushes back of M layer upwards for M, U2 flick with right hand, M' with middle finger push in the back downwards, U with right index finger, M2 flick with right hand.

#### Dan the Beginner

Also, if you do a right handed U perm, then that means you do the M moves and M2 flicks with you left hand. For example of Ub, which algorithm I use is M2 U M U2 M' U M2, you start with a M2 flick with your left hand using ring and middle fingers, U with right index, left middle finger pushes back of M layer upwards for M, U2 flick with right hand, M' with middle finger push in the back downwards, U with right index finger, M2 flick with right hand.
I have been doing all my M2 flicks as M'2 flicks, i.e. using the right hand only. I think it's time for me to look at finger trick details seriously. No wonder my TPS is so low.

#### Spacey10

##### Member
Also, if you do a right handed U perm, then that means you do the M moves and M2 flicks with you left hand. For example of Ub, which algorithm I use is M2 U M U2 M' U M2, you start with a M2 flick with your left hand using ring and middle fingers, U with right index, left middle finger pushes back of M layer upwards for M, U2 flick with right hand, M' with middle finger push in the back downwards, U with right index finger, M2 flick with right hand.
I have been doing all my M2 flicks as M'2 flicks, i.e. using the right hand only. I think it's time for me to look at finger trick details seriously. No wonder my TPS is so low.
wait what
ive been doing mu u perms with my right hand at the mu slice, and I can get my u perms sub 1.75 (right handed)

#### LBr

##### Member
Does anyone else find the M move hard to do fast? I am right handed and I have watched the finger trick video. I have tried using the ring finger (hopeless), and the forefinger (OK but awkward and it takes time for the finger to recover for the next time, esp when it has to do a U). I ended up using the thumb, which is also OK but slow as the grip changes too much. Just now, I thought of doing this, using M'3 instead of M, using in turn the pinkie, ring and middle finger. It's also slow but seems OK, and I like the flow when doing it, i.e not as jerky as when I have to do an M, using whichever finger. What do you think? For example, for U-PERM, I can do

M'2 U' M'3 U'2 M' U' M'2

Using M'3 for U-Perm A is a little less satisfactory, as the right hand is used for all the turns until the M'3. Any advice? Are there alternatives ways of doing these U-Perms, hopefully they also have M' turns, which is fun to do.
Put your middle finger on the DB edge and push. please don't do M'3 moves in U perms. It's slow