[Help Thread] Big Cubes Discussion

Rocky0701 · Mar 25, 2014

Wow! I wouldn't have thought that the formula for finding the number of possible OLLs would be as complicated as it was. I would like to take the time to thank you for all of your contributions to 4x4 parity algorithms. They have definitely helped me, and i'm sure many other cubers. I also am shocked at the amount that you have typed in your last few posts here, not many people here would go that far to help explain something that may not even be understood. That is awesome!

IRNjuggle28 · Mar 27, 2014

antoineccantin said:
Any tips for 3x3 stage on big cubes? I average sub-10 at 3x3, but I tend to get ~25 on 6x6 and 7x7, without counting parities.

I never saw anyone reply to this so... I guess I will. I am not even close to as fast as you at 3x3, but one thing that might be a good idea is doing 2gen (or just finger friendly) F2L pairs even if there's a 3 or 4 gen solution with a lower movecount (a solution that would be faster than the 2gen one if both were being done on a 3x3 cube.) Doing an <L,U,R> alg on 7x7 involves regripping over and over, unlike on 3x3. Being move efficient on the 3x3 stage of a 7x7 is kind of silly, and what is speed optimal on a 3x3 often wouldn't be on 7x7. F and D moves also really suck on big cubes. So maybe go for easier solutions, even if they're less efficient?

Another thing that Kevin Hays mentioned is that dot OLLs really suck on big cubes, so some sort of edge control? (sidenote: I wonder if OLS is used by anyone on big cubes? The algs I've seen for 3x3 often involve M or are just really bad looking for a big cube.)

unsolved · Mar 27, 2014

By the way, I finished the alpha version of my 4x4x4 brute force solver. It's only a console app. I am going to test it against some algs and see if there are any known shorter solutions.

unsolved · Apr 19, 2014

Stuck on my 5x5x5 solve, who can help me finish this?

Was playing around with my 5x5x5 today, and got this far:

Anyone know how to finish from here?

Thanks if you can help!

Rocky0701 · Apr 19, 2014

Do you know how to aolve a 4x4? If so i will be able to walk you through it, but if you don't idk if i can explain it. Either way, a tip for the future is you always want to finish your edge pairing before you start reduction.

unsolved · Apr 19, 2014

Rocky0701 said:
Do you know how to aolve a 4x4? If so i will be able to walk you through it, but if you don't idk if i can explain it. Either way, a tip for the future is you always want to finish your edge pairing before you start reduction.

Yes I can solve a 4x4x4. I just don't know the notation for 5x5x5 and that single edge flip perplexes me. I always solve the layers in order, top down. I will be learning the reduction method from now on.

bobthegiraffemonkey · Apr 19, 2014

3R2 U 3R' U2 3R U 3R U 3R U2 3R' U 3R[R U R' U': r2 F2 U2 2R2 U2 F2 r2]

The part before the brackets is separate from the brackets and flips two edge pieces. The brackets is a conjugate of a common alg which finishes off the cube, note [A:B]=ABA'.

unsolved · Apr 20, 2014

Thanks Bob, or Mr. Giraffemonkey, whichever you prefer.

I can't seem to get the animation to work on my machine for some reason, and I noticed the "beta" notification. Can you send an equivalent link to the older http://alg.garron.us/ site? I do not know what 3R2 refers to, nor do I know which way to hold the cube at the start without the aid of the site.

Thanks again.

IRNjuggle28 · Apr 20, 2014

unsolved said:
Anyone know how to finish from here? Thanks if you can help!

You should use the flipping algorithm: R U R' F R' F' R. The way you use it is that you do a slice move like 2U, then the flipping algorithm, then 2U'. Experiment with using the flipping algorithm to complete edge pairing, and you should get it. You'll also need to learn a parity algorithm.

I would recommend trying to figure out how to use the flipping algorithm to complete your edges yourself, as it will give you a better understanding of solving. However, if you get stuck, this video will be a good resource for learning to solve the last 4 edges. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npJIKUDAL4U

unsolved · Apr 21, 2014

cmowla said:
The link didn't work for me either. Recall the two adjacent middle edge flip algorithm I gave you a few posts ago. Just use that here and then apply a PLL Parity algorithm which works on the nxnxn. (This is basically what Bob did, but he used different algs).

That is, do this.

Most people just conjugate Rw2 F2 U2 r2 U2 F2 Rw2 with R2 D' x, R2 D' x Rw2 F2 U2 r2 U2 F2 Rw2 x' D R2, instead of using my alg (I just wanted to advertise it some more since it's "new").

This is just amazing stuff! Wow, thanks. 30 turns. No way in heck I would have gotten that. I just finished off the cube.

It seems like there are so many possible edge configs at the end of the cube solve. How could one hope to learn them all? Or is it just a matter of recognizing the setup turns to get to the algs that manipulate without effecting other areas?

By the way, my 4x4x4 program is making decent progress. I loaded every possible position with 4 turns or fewer from the solved state into a RAM buffer. I probe the buffer during the search, and I can find solutions to solves 4 moves sooner than anyone else

I loaded a bunch of 1 center vs. 1 center positions into the program and had it solve them. 16 different solutions @ 8-ply each were all solved in a 4-ply search that took less than a second!

Code:

Solution to 4x4x4 cube center scenario U1:F1 

TOP                     FRONT                   RIGHT
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|####|####|####|   |OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|OOOO|####|####|   |OOOO|####|OOOO|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|####|####|####|   |OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|####|####|####|   |OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------


BOTTOM                  BACK                    LEFT
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------



Solution [001] =  u  L' u' l   [INSIDE 4-turn database] @ 000000000000090188 nodes with 000000006056579994 4-TFS database probes               
** 4-TFS database is now off. **
** Search completed. **


Solution to 4x4x4 cube center scenario U1:F2 

TOP                     FRONT                   RIGHT
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|####|####|####|   |OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|OOOO|####|####|   |OOOO|OOOO|####|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|####|####|####|   |OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|####|####|####|   |OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------


BOTTOM                  BACK                    LEFT
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------



Solution [001] =  U  r  U' l'  [INSIDE 4-turn database] @ 000000000000009661 nodes with 000000002205630687 4-TFS database probes               
** 4-TFS database is now off. **
** Search completed. **


Solution to 4x4x4 cube center scenario U1:F3 

TOP                     FRONT                   RIGHT
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|####|####|####|   |OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|OOOO|####|####|   |OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|####|####|####|   |OOOO|####|OOOO|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|####|####|####|   |OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------


BOTTOM                  BACK                    LEFT
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------



Solution [001] =  U  b  d' b'  [INSIDE 4-turn database] @ 000000000000022702 nodes with 000000002762715046 4-TFS database probes               
** 4-TFS database is now off. **
** Search completed. **


Solution to 4x4x4 cube center scenario U1:F4 

TOP                     FRONT                   RIGHT
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|####|####|####|   |OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|OOOO|####|####|   |OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|####|####|####|   |OOOO|OOOO|####|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|####|####|####|   |OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------


BOTTOM                  BACK                    LEFT
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------



Solution [001] =  U  l' d2 l   [INSIDE 4-turn database] @ 000000000000012377 nodes with 000000002272872642 4-TFS database probes               
** 4-TFS database is now off. **
** Search completed. **


Solution to 4x4x4 cube center scenario U2:F1 

TOP                     FRONT                   RIGHT
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|####|####|####|   |OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|####|OOOO|####|   |OOOO|####|OOOO|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|####|####|####|   |OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|####|####|####|   |OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------


BOTTOM                  BACK                    LEFT
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------



Solution [001] =  U  b  u  b'  [INSIDE 4-turn database] @ 000000000000022615 nodes with 000000002754555146 4-TFS database probes               
** 4-TFS database is now off. **
** Search completed. **


Solution to 4x4x4 cube center scenario U2:F2 

TOP                     FRONT                   RIGHT
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|####|####|####|   |OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|####|OOOO|####|   |OOOO|OOOO|####|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|####|####|####|   |OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|####|####|####|   |OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------


BOTTOM                  BACK                    LEFT
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------



Solution [001] =  u  L  u' r'  [INSIDE 4-turn database] @ 000000000000090869 nodes with 000000006078181188 4-TFS database probes               
** 4-TFS database is now off. **
** Search completed. **


Solution to 4x4x4 cube center scenario U2:F3 

TOP                     FRONT                   RIGHT
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|####|####|####|   |OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|####|OOOO|####|   |OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|####|####|####|   |OOOO|####|OOOO|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|####|####|####|   |OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------


BOTTOM                  BACK                    LEFT
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------



Solution [001] =  U  r  d2 r'  [INSIDE 4-turn database] @ 000000000000009863 nodes with 000000002209938994 4-TFS database probes               
** 4-TFS database is now off. **
** Search completed. **


Solution to 4x4x4 cube center scenario U2:F4 

TOP                     FRONT                   RIGHT
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|####|####|####|   |OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|####|OOOO|####|   |OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|####|####|####|   |OOOO|OOOO|####|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|####|####|####|   |OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------


BOTTOM                  BACK                    LEFT
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------



Solution [001] =  U  b' d  b   [INSIDE 4-turn database] @ 000000000000021974 nodes with 000000002724139997 4-TFS database probes               
** 4-TFS database is now off. **
** Search completed. **


Solution to 4x4x4 cube center scenario U3:F1 

TOP                     FRONT                   RIGHT
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|####|####|####|   |OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|####|####|####|   |OOOO|####|OOOO|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|OOOO|####|####|   |OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|####|####|####|   |OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------


BOTTOM                  BACK                    LEFT
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------



Solution [001] =  U  f  u' f'  [INSIDE 4-turn database] @ 000000000000019376 nodes with 000000002572609883 4-TFS database probes               
** 4-TFS database is now off. **
** Search completed. **


Solution to 4x4x4 cube center scenario U3:F2 

TOP                     FRONT                   RIGHT
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|####|####|####|   |OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|####|####|####|   |OOOO|OOOO|####|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|OOOO|####|####|   |OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|####|####|####|   |OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------


BOTTOM                  BACK                    LEFT
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------



Solution [001] =  U  l' u2 l   [INSIDE 4-turn database] @ 000000000000012296 nodes with 000000002271827056 4-TFS database probes               
** 4-TFS database is now off. **
** Search completed. **


Solution to 4x4x4 cube center scenario U3:F3 

TOP                     FRONT                   RIGHT
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|####|####|####|   |OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|####|####|####|   |OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|OOOO|####|####|   |OOOO|####|OOOO|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|####|####|####|   |OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------


BOTTOM                  BACK                    LEFT
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------



Solution [001] =  u' f  u  F   [INSIDE 4-turn database] @ 000000000000118540 nodes with 000000007433147930 4-TFS database probes               
** 4-TFS database is now off. **
** Search completed. **


Solution to 4x4x4 cube center scenario U3:F4 

TOP                     FRONT                   RIGHT
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|####|####|####|   |OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|####|####|####|   |OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|OOOO|####|####|   |OOOO|OOOO|####|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|####|####|####|   |OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------


BOTTOM                  BACK                    LEFT
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------



Solution [001] =  U  f' d' f   [INSIDE 4-turn database] @ 000000000000020269 nodes with 000000002625283705 4-TFS database probes               
** 4-TFS database is now off. **
** Search completed. **


Solution to 4x4x4 cube center scenario U4:F1 

TOP                     FRONT                   RIGHT
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|####|####|####|   |OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|####|####|####|   |OOOO|####|OOOO|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|####|OOOO|####|   |OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|####|####|####|   |OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------


BOTTOM                  BACK                    LEFT
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------



Solution [001] =  U  r  u2 r'  [INSIDE 4-turn database] @ 000000000000009782 nodes with 000000002208891073 4-TFS database probes               
** 4-TFS database is now off. **
** Search completed. **


Solution to 4x4x4 cube center scenario U4:F2 

TOP                     FRONT                   RIGHT
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|####|####|####|   |OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|####|####|####|   |OOOO|OOOO|####|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|####|OOOO|####|   |OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|####|####|####|   |OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------


BOTTOM                  BACK                    LEFT
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------



Solution [001] =  U  f' u  f   [INSIDE 4-turn database] @ 000000000000020182 nodes with 000000002617121466 4-TFS database probes               
** 4-TFS database is now off. **
** Search completed. **


Solution to 4x4x4 cube center scenario U4:F3 

TOP                     FRONT                   RIGHT
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|####|####|####|   |OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|####|####|####|   |OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|####|OOOO|####|   |OOOO|####|OOOO|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|####|####|####|   |OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------


BOTTOM                  BACK                    LEFT
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------



Solution [001] =  U  l' U' r   [INSIDE 4-turn database] @ 000000000000012169 nodes with 000000002268309246 4-TFS database probes               
** 4-TFS database is now off. **
** Search completed. **


Solution to 4x4x4 cube center scenario U4:F4 

TOP                     FRONT                   RIGHT
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|####|####|####|   |OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|####|####|####|   |OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|####|OOOO|####|   |OOOO|OOOO|####|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|####|####|####|   |OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------


BOTTOM                  BACK                    LEFT
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------



Solution [001] =  u  f' u' F'  [INSIDE 4-turn database] @ 000000000000095864 nodes with 000000006349029285 4-TFS database probes               
** 4-TFS database is now off. **
** Search completed. **


Solution to 4x4x4 cube scrambled with [9] turns ----> D   l   F2  r   B2  u'  F2  r'  F'  

TOP                     FRONT                   RIGHT
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|&&&&|~~~~|~~~~|   |OOOO|OOOO|XXXX|^^^^|   |~~~~|XXXX|XXXX|&&&&|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|&&&&|~~~~|####|   |^^^^|####|####|####|   |OOOO|OOOO|~~~~|OOOO|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|&&&&|XXXX|####|   |~~~~|~~~~|^^^^|&&&&|   |####|XXXX|XXXX|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|XXXX|XXXX|&&&&|OOOO|   |OOOO|OOOO|XXXX|^^^^|   |~~~~|OOOO|OOOO|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------


BOTTOM                  BACK                    LEFT
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|^^^^|^^^^|OOOO|&&&&|   |XXXX|XXXX|####|XXXX|   |OOOO|^^^^|^^^^|####|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|OOOO|OOOO|~~~~|   |^^^^|&&&&|XXXX|^^^^|   |&&&&|~~~~|####|~~~~|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|OOOO|^^^^|~~~~|   |&&&&|&&&&|####|&&&&|   |XXXX|^^^^|^^^^|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|####|^^^^|####|   |&&&&|~~~~|OOOO|&&&&|   |XXXX|&&&&|&&&&|####|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------



Solution [001] =  F  r  F2 u  B2  [INSIDE 4-turn database] @ 000000000015566457 nodes with 000000081907605965 4-TFS database probes            
** 4-TFS database is now off. **
** Search completed. **


Solution to 4x4x4 cube scrambled with [9] turns ----> F'  l'  B'  u'  D2  b   F'  d2  B   

TOP                     FRONT                   RIGHT
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|OOOO|OOOO|####|   |OOOO|####|OOOO|&&&&|   |XXXX|XXXX|~~~~|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|XXXX|OOOO|XXXX|^^^^|   |OOOO|^^^^|OOOO|&&&&|   |XXXX|~~~~|&&&&|&&&&|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|OOOO|####|####|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|   |~~~~|OOOO|^^^^|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|OOOO|~~~~|~~~~|   |OOOO|&&&&|OOOO|&&&&|   |XXXX|^^^^|~~~~|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------


BOTTOM                  BACK                    LEFT
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|####|####|####|####|   |OOOO|^^^^|~~~~|&&&&|   |^^^^|####|^^^^|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|~~~~|&&&&|~~~~|   |~~~~|^^^^|XXXX|&&&&|   |^^^^|####|####|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|^^^^|####|^^^^|XXXX|   |OOOO|~~~~|XXXX|&&&&|   |^^^^|XXXX|~~~~|####|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|XXXX|XXXX|~~~~|   |OOOO|&&&&|OOOO|&&&&|   |^^^^|####|XXXX|XXXX|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------



Solution [001] =  B' d2 F  b' u   [INSIDE 4-turn database] @ 000000000021385129 nodes with 000000182948722066 4-TFS database probes            
** 4-TFS database is now off. **
** Search completed. **


Solution to 4x4x4 cube scrambled with [9] turns ----> f'  U   b2  L'  f'  B   f'  D'  f   

TOP                     FRONT                   RIGHT
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|&&&&|XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|   |~~~~|~~~~|XXXX|XXXX|   |&&&&|^^^^|^^^^|~~~~|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|OOOO|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |^^^^|OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|   |XXXX|^^^^|^^^^|~~~~|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|OOOO|~~~~|~~~~|~~~~|   |####|OOOO|OOOO|OOOO|   |XXXX|^^^^|^^^^|~~~~|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|OOOO|XXXX|####|####|   |XXXX|^^^^|OOOO|^^^^|   |####|&&&&|####|####|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------


BOTTOM                  BACK                    LEFT
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|OOOO|####|OOOO|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|^^^^|   |####|^^^^|~~~~|^^^^|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|####|XXXX|^^^^|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|^^^^|   |####|####|XXXX|####|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|~~~~|####|####|OOOO|   |&&&&|&&&&|&&&&|####|   |XXXX|XXXX|XXXX|&&&&|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------
|&&&&|####|&&&&|OOOO|   |XXXX|^^^^|&&&&|^^^^|   |~~~~|OOOO|XXXX|OOOO|
---------------------   ---------------------   ---------------------



Solution [001] =  f' D  f2 B'  [INSIDE 4-turn database] @ 000000000000651076 nodes with 000000002878711564 4-TFS database probes               
** 4-TFS database is now off. **
** Search completed. **

DavidCip86 · Apr 21, 2014

I hear a lot about doing slow solves to practice 3x3, but do many people do it for big cubes? I've tried and it seems more useful for 4x5 and 5x5 but not so much for 6x6 and 7x7

Christopher Mowla · Apr 21, 2014

unsolved said:
This is just amazing stuff! Wow, thanks. 30 turns. No way in heck I would have gotten that. I just finished off the cube.

It seems like there are so many possible edge configs at the end of the cube solve. How could one hope to learn them all? Or is it just a matter of recognizing the setup turns to get to the algs that manipulate without effecting other areas?

For the last layer of the 5x5x5, I would recommend solving the corners and middle edges (the same parts which make up the last layer parts of the 3x3x3 cube) first (just as you solve the last layer of the 3x3x3) and then solve the wing edges last using multiple 3-cycles (one at a time) and either a 2-cycle or 4-cycle at the end (if an odd permutation exists).

If you had a Ti-83 plus graphing calculator (or a Ti-84 plus), I could show you how to solve any last layer wing edge case using 3-cycles, as I wrote a solver which I believe uses the fewest number of 3-cycles to solve any given wing edge case, here (and it uses a 2-cycle at the end if an odd permutation exists). The readme.PDF and my post explains how I implemented it (it's very trivial in comparison to an optimal solver for the entire cube, which you are working on, but it was fun to do regardless!). I over commented (the highlighted text in the PDF is all comments!), but it was one of my first "documentations", so I've learned to not comment so much now.

unsolved said:
By the way, my 4x4x4 program is making decent progress. I loaded every possible position with 4 turns or fewer from the solved state into a RAM buffer. I probe the buffer during the search, and I can find solutions to solves 4 moves sooner than anyone else

That's impressive. It's exciting that you have the kind of programming background you have, and I hope you, Bruce, and Tom can continue to exchange notes! I have been following your thread, but it's way over my head (oh, that rhymes

).

uberCuber · Apr 21, 2014

DavidCip86 said:
I hear a lot about doing slow solves to practice 3x3, but do many people do it for big cubes? I've tried and it seems more useful for 4x5 and 5x5 but not so much for 6x6 and 7x7

Normal speedsolving turnspeed for 6x6/7x7 is already really slow unless you are Kevin Hays, so no, it's not really necessary ;_;

unsolved · Apr 21, 2014

cmowla said:
For the last layer of the 5x5x5, I would recommend solving the corners and middle edges

Yeah I am starting to see why. The remaining edges move very much like 4x4x4 cycles with slightly different offsets. I just have a grand total of 0-algs for doing cycles with the middle edge cubies. Ugh!

cmowla said:
If you had a Ti-83 plus graphing calculator (or a Ti-84 plus), I could show you how to solve any last layer wing edge case using 3-cycles

Dude that is awesome!! OMG how cool is that? Mind if I test your results against my solver? I'll post the results. I'll set them up to crank in a for loop and dump the data to a text file.

cmowla said:
(it's very trivial in comparison to an optimal solver for the entire cube, which you are working on, but it was fun to do regardless!)

I am impressed! I used to code for small calculators and I am well aware of the limited resources and painfully difficult procedure you have to undergo to get the code into the thing. I still have my Casio fx-7200g I bought in 1989 overseas. I play around on it sometimes.

cmowla said:
It's exciting that you have the kind of programming background you have, and I hope you, Bruce, and Tom can continue to exchange notes!

I'm pretty good at doing the stuff I love, like writing bitboard code to optimize the heck out of execution speed, but I am lazy and forget simple C things sometimes, like how to scan for when the user types a key for an option. I spent an hour yesterday trying to figure out a bug I introduced when I tried to add a selection of menu options to alter search parameters (turn off one or more databases, search until the first solution is found or keep searching until all are found, options like that). An hour! For a simple call to scanf() where I forgot to pass in a pointer to a var.... grrrrrr, that is like programming 101, first day of class!

If I can get the corner pruning table stuff working, and extend my databases + get a fast database hashing algorithm, I have already calculated the program will be able to reach 18 plies of search in a few hours.

QQW · May 4, 2014

I dont know any LBL methods for 5x5 or 7x7s are they more efficient than reduction? if they are, which (advanced) method should I learn? are there many algs to learn?

uberCuber · May 4, 2014

QQW said:
I dont know any LBL methods for 5x5 or 7x7s are they more efficient than reduction? if they are, which (advanced) method should I learn? are there many algs to learn?

Reduction is what nearly all fast people use for bigcubes. Don't use LBL for speed

DeeDubb · May 7, 2014

I'm working on 2 Look PLL specifically for big cubes (I use Roux for 3x3, so I don't want to work on all of the cases right). I'm wondering what algs people use on big cubes for H Perm and Z Perm, since most of the recommended ones I see for 3x3 are mid slice heavy. Thanks.

uberCuber · May 7, 2014

DeeDubb said:
I'm working on 2 Look PLL specifically for big cubes (I use Roux for 3x3, so I don't want to work on all of the cases right). I'm wondering what algs people use on big cubes for H Perm and Z Perm, since most of the recommended ones I see for 3x3 are mid slice heavy. Thanks.

I do:
H perm - R2 U2' R' U2 R2 U2' R2' U2' R' U2 R2
Z perm - R' U' R2 U R U R' U' R U R U' R U' R'

DeeDubb · May 7, 2014

uberCuber said:
I do:
H perm - R2 U2' R' U2 R2 U2' R2' U2' R' U2 R2
Z perm - R' U' R2 U R U R' U' R U R U' R U' R'

thank you

brian724080 · May 7, 2014

DeeDubb said:
I'm working on 2 Look PLL specifically for big cubes (I use Roux for 3x3, so I don't want to work on all of the cases right). I'm wondering what algs people use on big cubes for H Perm and Z Perm, since most of the recommended ones I see for 3x3 are mid slice heavy. Thanks.

I do uberCuber's H perm for 5x5+ but just the M-slice one for 4x4
I use the inverse of uberCuber's Z perm, I find it easier to execute

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