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balloon6610

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Joined
Feb 24, 2012
Messages
113
First you need should do the cross on top first to see your progress and use inspection time to find all the edges that you need to use and place it slowly,this will help you know where the edges will be when you place another edges. Then try to do it blindfolded and speed it up when you are better at the cross. Hope this help :)
 

Robocopter87

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Dec 2, 2010
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Please learn to solve the cross on the bottom. It is a very useful technique. Doing this gives you a better understanding of the cube, and gives you a much larger lookahead into F2L. You would have to do an x2 if you had to do it on top. Nuh-uh. No good. Do it on the bottom, force yourself to do it on the bottom.

I hear you say you tried a FEW times on the bottom. And you failed, that is very reasonable. Have you ever seen an astronaut who was in space for years, then be able to walk on land perfectly fine within "a few times" of trying? No. Have you seen a person who tried to memorize an algorithm with just trying it out a few times? No.

You need to do it a lot more than "a few times". I'd say many days of practice or even weeks of practice to get the "bottom cross" with ease.


And as for the inspection time problem, I have experienced this, I'm with you. I used to do the cross executing it with so many moves. Then, as you see, if you have a good edge piece, you can simply put it in the cross layer first, and align the other edge pieces in that color scheme. Then you can align the edge color scheme with the center piece's color scheme with "D-Turns". You need not match the edge piece with its corresponding center that takes a lot of time-unless you have an easy case.

Cross is a hard thing to learn, my friend. Playing with the cube more, understanding the cube more and improving in other qualities of your solve will let you ease in on the cross. It takes quite some time.
It's not something that you can be like "I want to learn this-----practice-----I mastered the cross.

Sorry, but No.

The answer to better cross solving is not do it on bottom.

Do you know how long a z2 takes? Do you really think that by removing that z2 that the cube times will change a lot? Maybe to somebody who solves in 10 seconds. But not to a beginner.

With cross on top you are able to actually see what you are doing and recognize mistakes/pieces. You can see what you are doing. And just because the cross is on top doesn't mean you can't see f2l pairs. I see them all the time. I do a 2 second cross on top, less than half a second z2, and just continue. There is nothing wrong with that.

Don't force stuff upon people that is debatable. Letting people try stuff out for themselves makes better times because when you are comfortable with something you do it quicker. Yes there are definitely some things that are undisputed but what would be the point of cube solving if you did it the same exact way as everyone else? Its not a puzzle if you solve like that. Doing stuff for yourself is essential to learning the cube. Letting people try stuff on their own is essential to teaching how to cube.

This person is not looking for advice like yours, they are looking for a better understanding to the cross.
 

timelonade

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Sorry, but No.

The answer to better cross solving is not do it on bottom.

Do you know how long a z2 takes? Do you really think that by removing that z2 that the cube times will change a lot? Maybe to somebody who solves in 10 seconds. But not to a beginner.

With cross on top you are able to actually see what you are doing and recognize mistakes/pieces. You can see what you are doing. And just because the cross is on top doesn't mean you can't see f2l pairs. I see them all the time. I do a 2 second cross on top, less than half a second z2, and just continue. There is nothing wrong with that.

Don't force stuff upon people that is debatable. Letting people try stuff out for themselves makes better times because when you are comfortable with something you do it quicker. Yes there are definitely some things that are undisputed but what would be the point of cube solving if you did it the same exact way as everyone else? Its not a puzzle if you solve like that. Doing stuff for yourself is essential to learning the cube. Letting people try stuff on their own is essential to teaching how to cube.

This person is not looking for advice like yours, they are looking for a better understanding to the cross.

What is your transition to f2l like?

Are you able to integrate fingertricks into your cross building? Moves like r U' r' are good for cross on D, and imo are much easier than r' D r for cross on top. The same for R' F R as opposed to R F' R' but I guess that fingertricks can develop with practice.
 

skeletonboy

Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2011
Messages
230
Location
British Columbia, Canada
Sorry, but No.

The answer to better cross solving is not do it on bottom.

Do you know how long a z2 takes? Do you really think that by removing that z2 that the cube times will change a lot? Maybe to somebody who solves in 10 seconds. But not to a beginner.

With cross on top you are able to actually see what you are doing and recognize mistakes/pieces. You can see what you are doing. And just because the cross is on top doesn't mean you can't see f2l pairs. I see them all the time. I do a 2 second cross on top, less than half a second z2, and just continue. There is nothing wrong with that.

Don't force stuff upon people that is debatable. Letting people try stuff out for themselves makes better times because when you are comfortable with something you do it quicker. Yes there are definitely some things that are undisputed but what would be the point of cube solving if you did it the same exact way as everyone else? Its not a puzzle if you solve like that. Doing stuff for yourself is essential to learning the cube. Letting people try stuff on their own is essential to teaching how to cube.

This person is not looking for advice like yours, they are looking for a better understanding to the cross.

I see your point there. I am not simply forcing him to do the cross on the bottom. He said that he tried to do it on the bottom and he failed in a few tries. I just wanted to let him know, it is more than a few tries. And if he is actually willing to do the cross on the bottom, I don't see why it would be a bad thing, unless of course, as you said, he still feels more comfortable with solving the cross on top. I agree a x2 doesn't so much time, but I'm just trying to note him, don;t debate on whether you are going to do a cross on top or bottom just with a few tries.

Yes, everyone has their own style/modifications/preferences to solving the cube in their own way, I am not trying to restrict him like a old strict teacher, I am telling him my opinion/advice on crosses.

anyway, thanks for telling me my post was somewhat "not useful", I will try to improve. :)
 

Robocopter87

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Dec 2, 2010
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New York
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What is your transition to f2l like?

Are you able to integrate fingertricks into your cross building? Moves like r U' r' are good for cross on D, and imo are much easier than r' D r for cross on top. The same for R' F R as opposed to R F' R' but I guess that fingertricks can develop with practice.

My transitions can be somewhat hit and miss. I'm no confused by being color neutral. And if I see a face, then flip it with z2, I rarely get mixed up by it. However, I gotta say that I think my cross is merely plain harsh experience. I have no idea how many times I've made a cross. Its gotta be a crap ton.

Fingertricks are a yes, however I admit I do not do wide turns on my crosses. I prefer to think of them as dominoes. And I just set them up and use them to knock each other into place. (Thats actually a really good analogy now that I think about it) It comes to me very naturally and I execute and with what I see during execution I use for F2L. However, you don't always see anything useful and end up with a non planned first pair.

So yes, it pretty much developed with pure practice.

Skeletonboy said:
I see your point there. I am not simply forcing him to do the cross on the bottom. He said that he tried to do it on the bottom and he failed in a few tries. I just wanted to let him know, it is more than a few tries. And if he is actually willing to do the cross on the bottom, I don't see why it would be a bad thing, unless of course, as you said, he still feels more comfortable with solving the cross on top. I agree a x2 doesn't so much time, but I'm just trying to note him, don;t debate on whether you are going to do a cross on top or bottom just with a few tries.

Yes, everyone has their own style/modifications/preferences to solving the cube in their own way, I am not trying to restrict him like a old strict teacher, I am telling him my opinion/advice on crosses.

anyway, thanks for telling me my post was somewhat "not useful", I will try to improve.

I understand what you are saying, and in any other scenario I would've agreed with you. Bottom cross is better. However, for this specific scenario, that side he solved cross on didn't matter at all. Yes, its a good habit to develop. But he needed some serious help.

It wasn't "not useful". maybe to him it might not really have been. But to be totally honest, your words inspired me to change my cross to a bottom cross. And just in a short time, I'm already seeing the benefits to it. Its hard to get down after so many top crosses but I think I'll make it.
 

manstrong

Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
52
Cross Help?

I've been working on Fridrich for the past few weeks and I'm getting okay. I've found that my biggest issue is of course F2L (It can take almost 25 of my 35 second solves). But a real issue I have isn't the second layer, but the cross. I did a bunch of times and got a 5.68 second average. Is that okay, I've seen that a 1-2 second is normal and I'd reach that with practice. Are there any hints that I might be missing? I do F2L all intuitively but I guess an Alg wouldn't hurt. :}
 

A Leman

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Joined
Jan 22, 2012
Messages
631
Location
New Jersey
You should make your cross in under 8 moves and plan it before your solve. Don’t worry about using over 15 seconds to plan your cross because over time the inspection will take less time. Basically, you should always plan out a fast cross and use your inspection time. Also try to notice how every move will affect the other cross piece's orientation.
 

Aero

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Joined
Jun 23, 2012
Messages
25
Location
Toronto, Canada
Cross help

I average around 40 seconds using the CFOP method. Here is my breakdown:
Cross 10 seconds
F2L 18-20 seconds
2 Look OLL 7 seconds
PLL 3 seconds

Obviously the cross is taking up to much time, any suggestions on how to reduce this time.
 

KingTim96

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Feb 14, 2012
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what i did, is scramble the cube, then plan out your cross, dont time yourself in the beginning, but plan the cross and try to do it without looking. like depending on what color you're doing, lets say white, look at the cube, and try to plan a way to complete the cross in around 12 moves at first with your eyes closed. and once you strting getting the hang of it it should come easier. sorry if this was bad advice, im never good at giving it.
 
Joined
Jun 23, 2012
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It's perfect advice! I am doing the same thing as my cross is taking up way too much time. But I am training like this with looking and seeing where they are, and then going "what is the ideal option here that solves it fast".

With time things will speed up but with the learned skills :)
 

Endgame

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May 1, 2012
Messages
405
I practice the cross untimed and blindfolded, this will give me a guaranteed advantage for F2L#1 and Extended Cross.
 

applemobile

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Jan 8, 2012
Messages
858
Location
exeter uk
3 seconds to recognise and perform your Pll sounds very fast in comparison to your times? I would say practicing doing your cross blindfolded is not worth it untill you can really get it down to 8 moves or less. Just play aroun for a while. When you look at your cube, instead of just inserting a cross piece, try an plan it so that when you insert it, it lines up a next piece. So every move you make, is doing 2 jobs. Start off by just planning out 2 pieces, and work your way up. I personally find the cross the hardest part, and have regularly done sub 20 solves that have had 7 second crosses. Just set aside a few minutes a day untill you get more efficient at cross building. Don't make the mistake I did and think you will naturally get better at it!
 

Ninja Storm

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Try and see how many moves your cross takes. Every cross takes 8 moves or less(some are harder to see than others, though). Personally, I always try and get a sub-10move cross, but it really depends. Try practicing finding the cross and seeing the movecount of your solution. Then, rescramble the same way, and try and find a better solution.
 

applemobile

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Jan 8, 2012
Messages
858
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exeter uk
I think telling him to do it blind is bad advice. Doing it blind will help his cross to F2l transition, and little else. I think he needs to learn to do it efficiently and quicker sighted before practicing it blind.
 
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