[Help Thread] 3x3 Cross Help and Discussion

[kunparekh18]

Re: CFOP method cross

Try doing it within 8 moves.

Plan out the cross during inspection and then do it blindfolded.

Try using new techinques like using M and wide moves.

Watch reconstructions of fast CFOP solvers and learn.

Practice.

Sent from my A75 using Tapatalk 2

 

[pdid]

thank you i will try to do some of these things. i have one question what is a wide move?

 

[kunparekh18]

Re: Cross Help Thread

Double layer turns, like r, u, d, etc.

 

[omer]

thank you i will try to do some of these things. i have one question what is a wide move?

Wide moves are moves which turn more than one layer of the cube, the notation for them is simply lower case letters. For example, u means turn the U layer and the middle layer at the same time, clockwise. r' means turn the R layer and the middle (vertically) layer at the same time, anti-clockwise.

Wide moves are useful when building the cross because they allow you to easily "rotate" the cube without actually rotating it.
For example, solve the cross and when it's on the bottom do: u R u'

Look at the cross pieces, a beginner will notice the last unsolved edge in the RB position, do a y rotation, then a D move, R' move and a D' move because it's pretty easy to understand, though it's not really fast.

A better solution using wide U turns exists, which is just the reverse of the scramble I just gave you and it is: u R' u'. The first u turns brings the last unsolved edge to a position which is much easier (when I say easier I don't mean less moves, just easier on the hands, a R' turn is nicer than a B' turn) to solve from AND puts the edge right above the spot it needs to go to, the R' turn puts the edge down and the last u' turn restores the cross to its right position.

To find more examples just scramble the cross a bit using wide U turns and try to see and understand how the reversing of the scramble solves the scramble, just like in the example above. To practice wide U turns just try to use it during your solves, it will become as obvious as regular cross solving eventually.

 

[ben1996123]

Hello i am fairly new to speed cubing and generally have times of around 40 seconds. However my cross generally takes around 10 seconds to solve making it a quarter of my solve time. does anyone have any tips on how to cut down on my time?

 

[brian724080]

Hello i am fairly new to speed cubing and generally have times of around 40 seconds. However my cross generally takes around 10 seconds to solve making it a quarter of my solve time. does anyone have any tips on how to cut down on my time?

Hi, you should solve the cross on the bottom of the cube. Assuming you have already looked at one or multiple instances of the videos on the post, it should only take practice to take you down to 3-5 seconds. But you'll really have to drill it in order to achieve something better than that.

 

[Parity Case]

3x3 Cross - Your Mental Process for the Execution stage?

Hi everyone,

My 3x3 cross sucks. I now have a 30 sec average, and am identifying the areas I could improve upon (refining F2L, look ahead, etc.), and cross is certainly one of them. I’ve watched/read a bunch of tutorials, all of which have been helpful, but none of the ones I’ve encountered have addressed the thing that is causing me the biggest problem.

I get the whole process of planning it out on the bottom in the 15 second window. Where I get stuck is remembering the up-to 7 or 8 move sequences I plan. F2L, OLL, and PLL I can do with muscle memory, but not the cross, as it is different every time. I’m curious about the mental processes and representational systems (e.g., visual; verbal/auditory; tactile) that you employ when dealing with this aspect. Do you (for example):

*see the set of moves in your head (if so, is it a sequence of pictures? or of words? or letters RUL2…? Or a moving image?)

*internally verbalise, with your inner voice, and then play back the moves audibly? (if so, do you say the full face names [front, right prime, uppertwice], or just their letters [F R’ U2], or something else?)

*feel the moves while planning them out (e.g., air-solve the cross during the 15 seconds, then operate on the new muscle memory?)

I’m sure I’ve missed some of the techniques you might use. I’ve noticed that I was mentally listing the full face names, and then listening to them play back as I execute the cross moves; that seems cumbersome and inefficient (especially saying ‘left prime’). I have poor visualization skills, but have been attempting to superimpose an image of the list of letter-name moves in a 3x3 grid onto the front of the cube (one move per cubie, right to left, top to bottom), maintaining it in front even when the cube faces are being shifted. I think with some practice, I could get much better at that…but if there are already much better methods out there that you use, I’d like to experiment with them. Thoughts on this please?

Thanks!

PS. I’ve used the forum’s search option, and not found what I’m looking for – so if I’ve missed it, my apologies, I'm a n00b… please redirect me.

 

[jayefbe]

I would definitely not try to "memorize" the cross like an algorithm. When I plan the cross I visualize the sequence of moves, only paying attention to the four cross edges. Once I have a sequence set up, it's internalized to the point that I can perform the moves relatively quickly. I doubt I could remember the moves right after I do them. I'm not thinking about the specific moves, just like I'm not thinking "R U' R' etc" when doing F2L.

 

[YddEd]

~snip~

Same problem here, and also I just cant make the cross in under 8 moves...... (Always 10+)

 

[omer]

Hi everyone,

My 3x3 cross sucks. I now have a 30 sec average, and am identifying the areas I could improve upon (refining F2L, look ahead, etc.), and cross is certainly one of them. I’ve watched/read a bunch of tutorials, all of which have been helpful, but none of the ones I’ve encountered have addressed the thing that is causing me the biggest problem.

I get the whole process of planning it out on the bottom in the 15 second window. Where I get stuck is remembering the up-to 7 or 8 move sequences I plan. F2L, OLL, and PLL I can do with muscle memory, but not the cross, as it is different every time. I’m curious about the mental processes and representational systems (e.g., visual; verbal/auditory; tactile) that you employ when dealing with this aspect. Do you (for example):

*see the set of moves in your head (if so, is it a sequence of pictures? or of words? or letters RUL2…? Or a moving image?)

*internally verbalise, with your inner voice, and then play back the moves audibly? (if so, do you say the full face names [front, right prime, uppertwice], or just their letters [F R’ U2], or something else?)

*feel the moves while planning them out (e.g., air-solve the cross during the 15 seconds, then operate on the new muscle memory?)

I’m sure I’ve missed some of the techniques you might use. I’ve noticed that I was mentally listing the full face names, and then listening to them play back as I execute the cross moves; that seems cumbersome and inefficient (especially saying ‘left prime’). I have poor visualization skills, but have been attempting to superimpose an image of the list of letter-name moves in a 3x3 grid onto the front of the cube (one move per cubie, right to left, top to bottom), maintaining it in front even when the cube faces are being shifted. I think with some practice, I could get much better at that…but if there are already much better methods out there that you use, I’d like to experiment with them. Thoughts on this please?

Thanks!

PS. I’ve used the forum’s search option, and not found what I’m looking for – so if I’ve missed it, my apologies, I'm a n00b… please redirect me.

I just visualize the cross pieces moving around the cube... I visualize a sequence of things I need to do, not moves just something like "Bring this down here, then this one down, this one will end up here so I'll have to turn it around like that, and when I put it down I will also solve this one.". I'll probably have enough time to see this happen in my head one or two more times and then I will start the timer.
If the cross is really easy I also start to plan out a pair.
Though I'm not a good example because sometimes I don't plan the whole cross, sometimes the last piece I will just approximate where it will end up, and figure out how to solve it on the go.

 

[MWilson]

It's done using muscle memory that you already have, although that may not sound right due to the cross being different every time. Basically, you need to just do so many crosses that your hands can string together little snippets of muscle memory. You get to a point with the cube where there are no short sequences of turns that you have not made repeatedly. It's the same as triggers in normal algorithms, but on a much smaller scale.

I recently introduced wide turns into my crosses more often, and my cross times went up to 2-3 seconds from 1-2 seconds even though they were more efficient in terms of moves and finger tricks. Now that I'm used to them, I'm back down to 1-2 seconds but I can handle cases that were awkward for me before much better now.

Basically, after planning out many, many, many crosses, you start to see little repeating patterns of how the edges move around, and you will associate small bits of muscle memory for those situations. At that point, you won't need to think at all. I remember years back when I could barely keep track of where the edges were, let alone how they moved around, and as soon as the timer started I forget everything I had planned out. I distinctly remember sitting and staring at a single scramble for upwards of half an hour going over and over the moves in my head, and then failing hard. Now I do little more than glace at the cube and the cross solution just seems obvious, and I start the timer without even considering my finger tricks because it's all subconscious. You really just need to force yourself to plan it out enough times that your mind will zero in on patterns and create little bits of muscle memory to string together for you. There's no trick to it.

It's basically like learning block building: There are no algorithmic shortcuts that will let you immediately be fast and efficient with it, you need to just do it poorly until you can do it well. If the human mind is good at anything, it's picking up on repeating patterns as you do something over and over again, even if you don't consciously see them.

 

[Arkwell]

Two Surprisingly good Cross Tutorials.

Guys, I suck at the cross and I saw the post with all the Cross tutorials(I liked Westonian & Cyoubx) I wanted to add two that I found on YouTube by accident that are really good.

http://www.youtube.com/user/LNOL/videos


http://www.youtube.com/user/ndaneshvari

Both have great cross solves and LNOL has color neutral cross solve examples.

Helped me quite a bit.

 

[MarcelP]

Great, I will watch it when I get back home from work.

 

[Patrick M]

Me and the owner of the blog Aventures In Cubing are doing some walkthru crosses. He averages around 35 seconds or so, and I'm sub 20. We want to show different ways of getting crosses on the same scramble, and I'll also discuss techniques and what to do in case you mess up (switch red/orange during relative cross, etc!)!

I'll post it when its done and give you the link

 

[GenoClysm]

Sweet. Currently i just keep my fingers on the easy peices and for some stupid reason not even memorize the hard peices and then just do them with like 6 moves each :/
Hopefully these vids will help

 

[Parity Case]

Thanks to those who replied to my somewhat lengthy question above. It sounds like representational systems are employed in various ways until enough practice (ideally using various tips found throughout this thread) has been done to lead to muscle memory/complex pattern recognition doing the work at a subconscious level.

Cheers.

 

[pipkiksass]

Howdy all - just bumping this thread with a simple question:

My cross is fairly efficient (usually about 6 moves, I guess fairly optimal), but not finger-trick friendly. I find myself doing cube rotations during cross which I know I shouldn't be doing.

I always (well, unless I see an M2 finish) start with yellow on U, but I've seen some faster cubers start with a 'side' colour (i.e., green, blue, red, or orange) on U. I guess this allows the same moves I've planned to be executed more efficiently, and some kind of double-layer turn to end up with yellow on U? How do you choose orientation before executing cross?

Also (/extension of the same) how do people finger-trick crosses? Are there any good YouTube videos about specifically tricking out crosses, rather than just planning them?

Thanks folks.

 

[sneaklyfox]

Howdy all - just bumping this thread with a simple question:

My cross is fairly efficient (usually about 6 moves, I guess fairly optimal), but not finger-trick friendly. I find myself doing cube rotations during cross which I know I shouldn't be doing.

I always (well, unless I see an M2 finish) start with yellow on U, but I've seen some faster cubers start with a 'side' colour (i.e., green, blue, red, or orange) on U. I guess this allows the same moves I've planned to be executed more efficiently, and some kind of double-layer turn to end up with yellow on U? How do you choose orientation before executing cross?

Also (/extension of the same) how do people finger-trick crosses? Are there any good YouTube videos about specifically tricking out crosses, rather than just planning them?

Thanks folks.

I guess you do white cross. I think the reason why you might sometimes see a "side" colour on U before they start is because the first move is an F, for example. The most easily accessible face to turn from the get-go is U so instead of having yellow on the U face they will have a different colour to do the F move. I think that's what I do sometimes though I haven't paid especial attention to it.

I choose orientation based on the memorized sequence of moves. R is better than F, for example. Ending with D moves is nice because it doesn't affect top layers for transition to F2L. I also find ending with F moves sometimes less favourable than ending with B moves because I can't see the top layer as well though I hardly use B moves unless it's fingertrick friendly.

Haven't seen much on tricking out crosses, but for something like R2 F2, I will execute as R'2 F2(double flick).

It's great you have fairly optimal cross but experiment with slightly less optimal crosses (move-wise) in favour of more fingertrick friendly crosses even though it may be a few moves more.

 

[hkpnkp]

making the cross

how to people get to make a cross in 2 seconds ? can anyone give any tips on cross making. i have just started learning fridrich and i want to become an expert in cross before moving to f2l.:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:

 

[kcl]

how to people get to make a cross in 2 seconds ? can anyone give any tips on cross making. i have just started learning fridrich and i want to become an expert in cross before moving to f2l.:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:

Practice. Good crosses come with time. Try to make them optimal. The trick that helps is that they can be misaligned when forming the cross and then aligned with a D move to finish.