[Help Thread] 3x3 Cross Help and Discussion

[Hodari]

1. Most of the times, I'm unable to recognize a solution with 7 or less moves. I mostly end up with 8, 9, or 10 moves solution.
2. My inspection sucks. I can't plan the whole cross in my head, and execute it blindfolded. I usually remember 2-3 edges and then look for the rest.
3. I'm still solving my cross on the top. Solving it on the bottom is so awkward and horribly slow. I tried to practice it but my time didn't improved.

Sorry for my poor English, not my native language.

Your English is fine, probably better than most people on forums these days. As for the cross, I'd say the biggest problem is 3. Sometimes even if it seems slow and awkward at first, you just have to stick with it for a while. Eventually it will get easier, but the longer you wait to switch, the harder it will be to do so. As for inspection and planning out the whole cross ahead of time, I still have trouble with that as well sometimes but again, you just have to keep forcing yourself to do it until it becomes easier. Also don't worry about the 15 second inspection time rules...take as long as you need to plan it out for now.

Finally, as far as 8, 9, or 10 move solutions, I'd say don't worry about that as much right now. Being bale to remember and perform a 9 move cross quickly and without pauses will still be faster than a 7 move cross where you have to stop and think about the last piece. Once you get the other parts down though and do want to work on reducing the move counts, I would say pay particularly close attention to the parts in Badmephisto's videos about the relative cross and about using the same move to solve one edge and at the same time convert another one from bad to good. Also just scramble the cube and play around with it for a bit trying to look at a few different options and see what ends up being the best way to solve the cross for it. Finally, if you get one you really can't figure out, use a program like cube explorer or Prisma Puzzle timer to show you what the optimal solutions are, then study how those solutions actually work.

 

[Escher]

http://laire.fi/jarcs/

Put scrambles in here and study 'why' the crosses are solved so efficiently and how it differs from your solutions.

 

[Rune]

I wonder, how many unhappy beginners have left cubing for good after getting answers like that: "Do the cross on bottom and all will be fixed!" And from where do you know that´s "wrong" to do the cross on top?

 

[rubikmaster]

I wonder, how many unhappy beginners have left cubing for good after getting answers like that: "Do the cross on bottom and all will be fixed!" And from where do you know that´s "wrong" to do the cross on top?

Well,I didn't just say to do the cross on bottom and that's it.I said that would be the first thing you need to do before starting to improve your cross and after that I think I explained it all pretty good about how to reduce the number of moves and memorize the cross.And I didn't really mean "wrong way of doing the cross" literally,I guess I didn't find the right word.By wrong I meant that he shouldn't be focusing to improve his cross while he's still solving it on the top if he is planning to switch to doing the cross on bottom.If he wants to continue solving cross on top,then he can continue practicing his cross like that,it's his choice.I also agree there is no "wrong" and "right" way of solving the cross.:tu

 

[skeletonboy]

Please learn to solve the cross on the bottom. It is a very useful technique. Doing this gives you a better understanding of the cube, and gives you a much larger lookahead into F2L. You would have to do an x2 if you had to do it on top. Nuh-uh. No good. Do it on the bottom, force yourself to do it on the bottom.

I hear you say you tried a FEW times on the bottom. And you failed, that is very reasonable. Have you ever seen an astronaut who was in space for years, then be able to walk on land perfectly fine within "a few times" of trying? No. Have you seen a person who tried to memorize an algorithm with just trying it out a few times? No.

You need to do it a lot more than "a few times". I'd say many days of practice or even weeks of practice to get the "bottom cross" with ease.


And as for the inspection time problem, I have experienced this, I'm with you. I used to do the cross executing it with so many moves. Then, as you see, if you have a good edge piece, you can simply put it in the cross layer first, and align the other edge pieces in that color scheme. Then you can align the edge color scheme with the center piece's color scheme with "D-Turns". You need not match the edge piece with its corresponding center that takes a lot of time-unless you have an easy case.

Cross is a hard thing to learn, my friend. Playing with the cube more, understanding the cube more and improving in other qualities of your solve will let you ease in on the cross. It takes quite some time.
It's not something that you can be like "I want to learn this-----practice-----I mastered the cross.

 

[JonnyWhoopes]

Please learn to solve the cross on the bottom. It is a very useful technique. Doing this gives you a better understanding of the cube

Citation needed. Really. I'm honestly curious where you got the idea that you gain a better understanding of the cube by solving cross on bottom rather than cross on top.

 

[skeletonboy]

Citation needed. Really. I'm honestly curious where you got the idea that you gain a better understanding of the cube by solving cross on bottom rather than cross on top.

Well, I didn't mean to only direct that only to cross wether on bottom or top. Learning to master the cross, is a very good thing for your knowledge of solving the rest of the cube. There may be a pattern oyu recognize in an algorithm which may be very similar to the technique you use to solve a specific place of the cross.
Mastering the cross means knowing what to do for the cross, knowing where the pieces go so you can memorize it for blind execution. Knowing where pieces go and to do it blind, is a very important step in F2L too, such as lookahead. Lookahead includes knowing where the pieces are, and knowing where the pieces need to go for blind execution.
If there was a newbie to cubing, then understanding and mastering the cross, also inlcudes, this type of information. Maybe even the fact that moving this cross edge piece also brings along the 2 corner pieces which could be an easy pair for F2L.

 

[TheWitcher]

OK, so if I understand you guys right, the first thing I need to do is focusing on getting comforable and fast (as fast as my top cross) with the bottom cross, and then worry aboust the rest?
skeletonboy you're right, I did tried it only a few times, it felt so awkward and uncomfortable...
I'm practicing it a few hours now, and I do feel a slight improvement, although it's still pretty slow and confusing.
I shall practice harder then

Btw what happened to my title?

 

[jeff081692]

My tips on handling the advice above.
Right now your two problems are not seeing optimal solutions to your cross and trouble transitioning to doing your cross on the bottom. Obviously if these two things could come together you would have no problem.
If you had to pick one, be a master of seeing great cross solutions blindfolded or being use to doing your cross on the bottom the better pick would be the first one. It is not necessary to do the cross on the bottom, however it is greatly recommend to learn to. But it is necessary to be able to find efficient crosses regardless if your cross is on top or bottom.

The thing about learning to do the cross on the bottom is that it will be awkward and your times will get worse until you get the hang of it. Also if you had chosen cross on bottom for my scenario earlier then you would still be solving the cross at the same amount of time until you learn to see the cross in 7 moves or less every time.

That said the best thing you can do for the long run is the switch to cross on bottom while you try to practice getting the cross in 7 moves or less. However you have to accept that your times might not improve at the rate you would like.

The other option is to just focus on learning to build optimal crosses on top. If you follow this you don't have to worry about your cross times getting any worse but you do get slightly less look ahead for the rest of the solve. But this being a cross specific thread that is the kind of advice i I think we should give him and if he wants help on transition from cross to f2l then really consider cross on bottom.

 

[Captainmajestik]

Need help with the cross

I don't know why exactly, but my cross seems to be taking an abnormal amount of time... like, 8 seconds of time.

I average around 38 seconds, so it's quite a big thing for it being 8 seconds in my solves.

Anyone got any tips for doing it faster? I solve the white cross on the bottom, and I'm using a Lubix Fusion.

 

[TheWitcher]

How many moves does it take you to solve the cross?

 

[Captainmajestik]

11, 9, 11, 10, 3, 8, 9, 7; counting R2/U2 etc as 2 moves, not one.

 

[ressMox]

Perhaps this would help. Faz also has a tutorial about how to get faster at the cross on his channel (fazrulz1, I believe).

 

[skeletonboy]

Badmephisto and Fazulz and many other youtubers have great tutorials on youtube about advanced cross. Check it out. They can really help.

 

[JK]

Use color neutrality,you could find more easier crosses.

 

[jskyler91]

I am also making a video with a section on a few cross fingertricks which are useful, I will post it here when it finishes uploading

 

[jeff081692]

Use color neutrality,you could find more easier crosses.

At this point color neutrality would do more harm than good because a typical cross can be made in 2 seconds without being color neutral.

One Idea might be to give us scrambles of crosses where you honestly don't get what the best way to approach it is. And see model solutions from better cubers. This was one idea I had for a forum post but I don't know if it would catch on.

 

[Captainmajestik]

I'll do an Ao5 or Ao12 video later on, once I'm rid of this hangover.

 

[Robocopter87]

Know your white color scheme. The order of edges around. (Personally I have no idea how I do this. I can't name the edges for each side ofthe cube yet during a solve I automatically know whether or not the piece is correctly oriented if two edges are next to each other. I am CN but this part still eludes my knowledge. However, for you it should be simple. Color singularity makes this part easy.)

Now, get rid of your timer for a while. Improvements won't work if you are constantly timing yourself.

Now scramble, and figure out the fastest cross possible. Don't worry about how long it takes you.
Really think about what you are doing. Do not think of this as placing four edges one at a time, know what happens to the cube as you move it. What cross pieces move when I turn this face. Sometimes you will see that a piece canbe inserted two ways but one way will make your next piece more available to placement. Really watch what you will do.

The fastest cross possible will be the cross witht he fewest moves. So once you think you can't possibly make it any faster, execute.

Keep doing this. Then start attempting to do this in fifteen seconds.

Just keep at it, you'll learn how to solve a cross.

Also, some people say that double layer turns make the cross better. I average 2 second cross and don't do that. Do what works for you. And then the cube will work for you.

You got this. Good Luck.

 

[ottozing]

I am also making a video with a section on a few cross fingertricks which are useful, I will post it here when it finishes uploading

sounds cool.