[Help Thread] 4x4 Discussion

[Username]

The way Faz completes his centers shouldn't influence your method.

But if you really want to see his method, look at some of the reconstructions of his solves. Also, start using Yau

 

[mati1242]

Feliks uses yau method so he is doing centers a little different than in normal redux.
If you are interested how yau method works then search some tutorials or walkthrough solves on Yt

 

[Schmidt]

I do Yau4 like this: Make W and Y center, leave W as D and make 3 cross edges, rotate z and pair the last cross edge, put them on R (W facing R) and then R2 to put it away on the bottom, make rest of centers, R2 again and U2 to complete cross.

So here's a question: Am I wasting moves by making the last cross first instead of after the rest of the centers?

 

[jayefbe]

I do Yau4 like this: Make W and Y center, leave W as D and make 3 cross edges, rotate z and pair the last cross edge, put them on R (W facing R) and then R2 to put it away on the bottom, make rest of centers, R2 again and U2 to complete cross.

So here's a question: Am I wasting moves by making the last cross first instead of after the rest of the centers?

I'm not quite sure where you're placing the last cross edge to keep it from being destroyed. Are you keeping the last cross dedge on the Yellow-layer (assuming white cross), and just keeping an eye on it to make sure you're not breaking them up?

You might not be wasting moves, but I can do the last four centers much faster if I don't have to worry about breaking up the last cross dedge. The last cross edge can be paired pretty quickly after centers are formed, so I'm not sure how much time you'd save pairing it before the last four centers are built.

 

[uberCuber]

I do Yau4 like this: Make W and Y center, leave W as D and make 3 cross edges, rotate z and pair the last cross edge, put them on R (W facing R) and then R2 to put it away on the bottom, make rest of centers, R2 again and U2 to complete cross.

So here's a question: Am I wasting moves by making the last cross first instead of after the rest of the centers?

I just did a few solves where i made the last cross edge before L4C as you describe and then went to solve the centers the exact same way I normally would, and that edge pair always got broken up, so I'm going to make the guess that you are probably wasting moves.

Here's a challenge for you to test: I just did 12 partial solves. As soon as the white/yellow centers were solved, I then started counting my moves, and stopped as soon as all centers and the whole cross were solved. Below is the movecount avg12 I got for the steps [first 3 cross edges + last 4 centers + finish cross]. Note that I did not do these as slow linear FMC attempts; I did this as I would in a speedsolve, working with whatever pieces I saw quickly. I recommend you do a couple solves counting the moves for these same steps, and see how your counts compare to this:

27, 39, 38, 36, 32, (45), 32, (26), 33, 38, 40, 42 = 35.7

 

[Schmidt]

I'll try that. About destroying the pair, I use r and l instead of Rw and 2Rw for making centers, keeping the last cross in the DR where it won't be destroyed.

EDIT: 36 34 42 40 (33) 37 (42) 41 39 38 40 = 38.8

i guess the 3 moves I waste are for hiding and revealing the last cross piece. I also need to improve my center building.

 

[jayefbe]

I'll try that. About destroying the pair, I use r and l instead of Rw and 2Rw for making centers, keeping the last cross in the DR where it won't be destroyed.

EDIT: 36 34 42 40 (33) 37 (42) 41 39 38 40 = 38.8

i guess the 3 moves I waste are for hiding and revealing the last cross piece. I also need to improve my center building.

It sounds like you're doing what I thought you are. In which case, you're constantly moving the last cross edge to keep it out of the way. I think the bigger issue, rather than wasted moves, is the increased time it takes paying attention to two an extra pair that you need to constantly move out of the way. I tried doing it your way a few times, and it was possible. But when I tried to form centers while maintaining my normal speed, it always resulted in destroying the last cross edge.

 

[Schmidt]

The last cross stays in the DR posistion at all times. I'm moving the two middle/inner slices to form the centers.

 

[TeddyKGB]

The last cross stays in the DR posistion at all times. I'm moving the two middle/inner slices to form the centers.

You can't go quite as fast doing r as you can doing Rw which makes me think it's slowing you down, but if it works for you and you like it go for it. You could even call it the Schmidt Variation

 

[speedcuber50]

Birthday 4x4

Hi!

I got a 4x4 cube for my birthday! It's a Dayan + MF8 4x4. I love it (I already knew how to solve a 4x4 since I practiced it on a simulator).

However, even after a day, the cube is very stiff and unsuitable for fingertricks. How long does it take to break in? And what is the best way to tension this cube? Should it be looser or tighter? Also, even though it's very stiff and tight, I've had four or five popped edges over the course of today (and I wasn't even trying to corner-cut). What can I do about this, if anything?

With regards to the method of solving the 4x4, I decided not to read how to do it but rather to figure it out. I've got this system where I group all the centres, pair the edges, and then solve like a 3x3 cube. It's awfully slow, but it works. But sometimes I get stuck with either a single flipped edge pair or two transposed edge pairs, which require a special algorithim to fix before I can continue. Would it be possible to develop other algs to incorporate these into special OLL and PLL cases without having to do an extra alg beforehand? If so, how many OLL/PLL cases would there be?

Sorry for the large number of questions, but I'm intruiged by this thing...

Thanks,

speedcuber50

 

[KongShou]

So, again, not doing any research whatsoever and expect everyone to answer the same question that has been asked many time before.

Firstly don't use a Dayan, it's awful, use a Shengshou.

The method you have figured out is THE method to solve a 4x4. However you can learn to group the edges in 2s or 3s which is faster, also when solving centres solve one side, then the opposite, the the last four.

When you feel comfortable with reduction(the above method) learn Yau.

 

[uberCuber]

The method you have figured out is THE method to solve a 4x4.

Breaking news: there is only one method to solve a 4x4.

 

[KongShou]

Breaking news: there is only one method to solve a 4x4.

Because that's clearly what I meant

 

[speedcuber50]

Firstly don't use a Dayan, it's awful, use a Shengshou.

Now I don't want to go and have to change it for another cube (seeing as you can't even get a Shengshou in this country), so how can I improve this one? And, BTW, Feliks used a Dayan; I've never had a problem with the cubes Feliks uses. That's how I choose my cubes.

 

[jayefbe]

Now I don't want to go and have to change it for another cube (seeing as you can't even get a Shengshou in this country), so how can I improve this one? And, BTW, Feliks used a Dayan; I've never had a problem with the cubes Feliks uses. That's how I choose my cubes.

First of all, KongShou has his own cube shop, located in the UK....and sells the SS 4x4!
http://www.ukcubestore.com/shengshou.html

Also, while what some particular famous cuber uses should have NO influence on what you use, Feliks now uses a SS 4x4. His recent 4x4 WR solve:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6kO5iCKlnI

 

[EMI]

Does anybody have a good trick for "O-perm" on 4x4? Aka PLL parity into Z-perm. Or adjacent parity U U-perm U' which also isn't very fast.

 

[speedcuber50]

I've already asked if it would be possible to develop PLL algs for special 4x4 cases, but no one has responded.

Also, when I was looking at the cube at PUZL, they had a video of Feliks solving the same cube in 30 or so seconds, so even though the ShengShou can be considered beter, it is clearly possible to solve the Dayan + mf8 in 30 seconds.

 

[~Adam~]

Which version?

If the 2nd or 3rd throw it in the nearest bin. 1st just strip it down all the way, remove excess plastic from the 2x2 core and lube while rebuilding.

I think the 4th is available now but I haven't heard anything about it.

Edit - just checked. It is available so if you have it do the same as you would with a version 1 and tension it properly. I think Tim Major had a thread or video on how to do it well.

 

[jayefbe]

It was probably a different model of Dayan + mf8 4x4, considering the solve was from two years ago.

Yes, it's possible. But a fast solver is going to be able to transition from the parity alg to the PLL alg with no pause if they can recognize what case it is going to be.

 

[~Adam~]

Faz's Dayan + MF8 WRs were with version 1 which is very smooth but pops loads. Now he uses an unmodded SS.

And, BTW, Feliks used a Dayan; I've never had a problem with the cubes Feliks uses. That's how I choose my cubes.

He got his 1st 4x4 records with a mini QJ. I wouldn't recommend those to anyone now. Your argument is outdated.