[Help Thread] 4x4 Discussion

When I see parity on 4x4 I often resort to 4LLL. For orientation I will flip an edge then do OLL, and I only know half the OLLs anyway, so sometimes that's three algs. For PLL I struggle to recognise a case when there's parity, and sometimes I misrecognise regular cases because I'm looking for parity, so usually I will permute corners then fix parity if it's not a regular EPLL case.

I'm thinking of learning some algs to do 4LLL more systematically. So, learn two OLL parity cases for solving EO when there are 1 or 3 edges flipped, and learn extra EPLL cases with parity combined. Thus I would no longer be solving parity as a separate step, but assimilated as part of EO or EP.

Does anyone else do this? Is there a good alg set available? I found EO algs on the wiki page, but can't find EP algs.
 
mark49152 said:
When I see parity on 4x4 I often resort to 4LLL. For orientation I will flip an edge then do OLL, and I only know half the OLLs anyway, so sometimes that's three algs. For PLL I struggle to recognise a case when there's parity, and sometimes I misrecognise regular cases because I'm looking for parity, so usually I will permute corners then fix parity if it's not a regular EPLL case.

I'm thinking of learning some algs to do 4LLL more systematically. So, learn two OLL parity cases for solving EO when there are 1 or 3 edges flipped, and learn extra EPLL cases with parity combined. Thus I would no longer be solving parity as a separate step, but assimilated as part of EO or EP.

Does anyone else do this? Is there a good alg set available? I found EO algs on the wiki page, but can't find EP algs.
Click to expand...

I'd recommend learning some COLL cases to orient and permute corners in one alg. Learning some edge control techniques help to reduce three flip cases would help, as well. Also, you should work on learning to recognize all PLL cases with parity. You probably won't want to learn all COLLs, so you'll need to use PLL sometimes.
 
BaMiao said:
I'd recommend learning some COLL cases to orient and permute corners in one alg. Learning some edge control techniques help to reduce three flip cases would help, as well. Also, you should work on learning to recognize all PLL cases with parity. You probably won't want to learn all COLLs, so you'll need to use PLL sometimes.
Click to expand...
Thanks, I could learn COLL but that's not what I'm asking. I'm interested in EPLL+parity. Sure I could do edge control or FRUR'U'F, as I do today, but would rather learn EOLL+parity.

Does an EPLL+parity alg set exist?
 
How do I practice to get better at 4x4?

I am practicing so much and nothing is happenning and I am really slow so I thought just solving it slow might help or something nothing has helped
I average around 2 minutes I use yau and I practice by either solving it slowly or just solving it
I practice a lot too

I average 2 minutes I use Yau and I practice by solving it slowly or just solving it
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I'd recommend the "how to practice" thread, but in a nutshell:
Find your weak points, and train those.

If you need help with that, you could maybe video yourself and post it in the solve critique thread.
Although usually reviewing yourself in a video is usually enough to realize yourself where you are lacking.

Try writing down a solve reconstruction at the very least.
Even the process of doing that sometimes makes you aware of things you are doing wrong (wasted moves, or slow recognition, even hesitations and unsureness become apparent).
 
You also didn't tell us how much you practice. Sometimes, when I hit a block, I just give it some time and it gets better. If you average 2mins with yau, give it a week or two (consistent practice. Like, daily or every other day)
 
bundat said:
Find your weak points, and train those.
Click to expand...

I find ctimer (http://www.ctimer.co.uk/) to be a great resource as you can time your splits fairly well in a normal solve and find out what part(s) or your solve are the weakest. http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?42530-How-to-Improve-at-4x4-A-Step-by-Step-Analysis gives an "ideal" breakdown for sub40 and sub1, but by percentages for sub2 they breakdown into:
F2C: 10s
F3E: 20.2s
L4C: 16.1s
LCE: 8.1s
L8E: 20.2s
3x3: 44.4s

so you can time your own splits and see how they compare. I ave 2:15 with Yau and have used this idea to improve relatively quickly with just an hour a day - I would look at which part of my solve is the "worst" in comparison with the above breakdown and work on just that part of the solve for a half-hour then I would do an Ao12 full solves, which took about a half-hour. This helped alot and continuing this I'm confident I can get sub2.

Also, an average Yau solve is roughtly 160 moves, so if you turn at a constant 2tps, you'd be sub1:30. That's just to say that decent times are very do-able without having to worry about turning fast (I like to analyse it that way to help my psychology of what's do-able for me - coz I can't turn fast at all :) )

Hope this helps!
 
Well first you probably shouldnt use the Yau-method quite yet. I was around 1:30-1:40 average with regular redux before swapping to Yau. Some even recommend being at sub 1:10 before going to Yau.

What cube are you using?
 
windhero said:
Well first you probably shouldnt use the Yau-method quite yet. I was around 1:30-1:40 average with regular redux before swapping to Yau. Some even recommend being at sub 1:10 before going to Yau.

What cube are you using?
Click to expand...

hmmm I hadnt heard that - why wait until a certain time before switching? What's wrong with starting with Yau?
 
TheZenith27 said:
it is slower than reduction if you can't look ahead well.
Click to expand...

Proof? Your logic in making this claim?

a) Methods don't have speeds.

b) First three edges is the *only* part of Yau that has difficult look ahead. Why should getting faster at reduction help you with this? In this step of Yau, you are specifically trying to search for and track every edge piece that matches your cross color. Reduction edge pairing is a very different deal in terms of lookahead. Also, the Yau F3E can be solved very efficiently in ways that practicing reduction will never teach you. If you want to get faster at Yau F3E, you practice Yau F3E, not reduction.

c) Last four centers in Yau is a difficult step for someone not used to it, but lookahead is not the reason. It's the lack of rotations that makes this step difficult for people new to it. Again, practicing reduction will not help you with this at all. Since it's the actual moveset itself that can make this step difficult to get used to, why not start getting used to it early on? The more you practice reduction before switching to Yau, the more you get used to not having to deal with the restriction in this step, which is not especially productive.

d) Last eight edges + beginning the 3x3 stage is much, much easier to look ahead in with Yau than reduction. If you are slow at 4x4 and your lookahead is already bad, why make the problem worse by using an approach with inherently more difficult lookahead?
 
uberCuber said:
I see absolutely no reason to wait until you are sub-x with reduction before switching to Yau.
Click to expand...

I personally think that redux is infact a lot harder than yau in terms of edgepairing look ahead. Therefore getting "decent" speeds with redux will translate to much faster speeds with Yau. Regular redux teaches some basic efficiency that you need to know when solving the 4x4. I just think the most efficient way to train 4x4 would be to go regular redux until 1:30ish on average and then swap to yaudux.
 
DaveyCow said:
I find ctimer (http://www.ctimer.co.uk/) to be a great resource as you can time your splits fairly well in a normal solve and find out what part(s) or your solve are the weakest. http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?42530-How-to-Improve-at-4x4-A-Step-by-Step-Analysis gives an "ideal" breakdown for sub40 and sub1, but by percentages for sub2 they breakdown into:
F2C: 10s
F3E: 20.2s
L4C: 16.1s
LCE: 8.1s
L8E: 20.2s
3x3: 44.4s

so you can time your own splits and see how they compare. I ave 2:15 with Yau and have used this idea to improve relatively quickly with just an hour a day - I would look at which part of my solve is the "worst" in comparison with the above breakdown and work on just that part of the solve for a half-hour then I would do an Ao12 full solves, which took about a half-hour. This helped alot and continuing this I'm confident I can get sub2.

Also, an average Yau solve is roughtly 160 moves, so if you turn at a constant 2tps, you'd be sub1:30. That's just to say that decent times are very do-able without having to worry about turning fast (I like to analyse it that way to help my psychology of what's do-able for me - coz I can't turn fast at all :) )

Hope this helps!
Click to expand...

I'm kinda lazy. Can someone convert that to sub-1:15?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Turns_And_Twists2024
4x4 OH discussion
2
Replies
24
Views
2,532
AJT17
AJT17
C
  • Poll Poll
4x4 General Discussion
2
Replies
22
Views
2,761
Artem Tabaliuk ( Артём )
Artem Tabaliuk ( Артём )
Kenneth
  • Sticky
Blindsolving Discussion and Help
294 295 296
Replies
5,908
Views
731,380
abunickabhi
abunickabhi
Robert-Y
[Help Thread] Yau4 Discussion
3 4 5
Replies
80
Views
27,850
MeSub20
MeSub20
B
[Help Thread] Puzzle Setup / Tension Discussion
28 29 30
Replies
592
Views
93,831
Fukuoka Kengo James
Fukuoka Kengo James
Back
Top