[Help Thread] 4x4 Discussion

[holypasta]

I would tackle jessica fridrich

I lol'd....

 

[Kail]

HA! I didnt notice that.

What I meant in working in 2x2's. Is that the idea of F2L is to make 2x1 pairs and place them in like corners. Doing a 4x4x4 cube, it wouldnt help to do them as 2x1's, because the middle pieces are the problem. Essentially I could solve the whole cube except for the 24 Cross Pieces if I did this.

To do it like the F2L technique, I would Have to place them as 2X2x2 Pieces. I would essentially have to break it up as if it were a pocket cube. In theory i guess this could work...except I would have to solve the 4x4x4, one 2x2x2 at a time, then solve it as one big 2x2x2.

Make sense?

But I dont think thats a practice method...I could try it though.

I know how to solve the centers. I've gotten that down. I get that. I know how to solve the white cross. I get that. I know how to solve the white corners. But its solving the OTHER crosses. I dont know how to make a cross intuitively and keep the other crosses. thats how i had planned to tackle it.

Just like I dont know to solve the cross in a 3x3x3 intuitively...i just know what alg's to use...lol.

Whats a commutators?

 

[rjohnson_8ball]

Here's a tip: What if you could make the 4x4x4 into a 3x3x3 somehow?

This is a good hint. It is how I figured out the 4x4 on my own. To elaborate only slightly more, what if you could manipulate the 4x4 so all you have are the 6 centers solved and all 12 edges solved (each containing 2 cubies), then solve it like a 3x3. I hope I didn't elaborate too much for you.

 

[byu]

How about you just learn to apply commutators? That's gotta be the easiest way to learn how to solve every nxnxn cube, and its intuitive. You should be able to learn how to do it by messing around with your 3x3x3

It's not that easy to do center commutators on a 3x3 and figure out what the result is...

 

[TMOY]

M E M' E' is a centers commutator which is easy to perform on a 3^3

 

[Tetris Cube]

That moves all of the centers on the cube though, lol. Well, if you applied it to a 4x4x4+ cube. If you do it on just two layers of the cube you just get strange cycles that don't really help. Though I know you were joking

I don't really get why the TC is asking for help if he's trying to figure it out on his own... doesn't make much sense to me. Reduction can be done pretty intuitively, but if I were in that situation I would get stuck at parity if I didn't already know the algs.

 

[cpt.Justice]

How about you just learn to apply commutators? That's gotta be the easiest way to learn how to solve every nxnxn cube, and its intuitive. You should be able to learn how to do it by messing around with your 3x3x3

It's not that easy to do center commutators on a 3x3 and figure out what the result is...

But once you know how to solve corners and edges with commutators, centers on a 4x4x4 are exactly the same except way easier...

 

[Kail]

Well I asked for a little assistance because I was blindly going into it. I can probally figure out if i know the idea behind it.

Today I got all the way to a situation where...Everything was solved cept two pieces. ugh. I think thats called parity. I tried to goof with it and coudlnt get anywhere

As long as I can get to this case, i'll be happy. i know the algs for parity are really really long and complicated.

 

[byu]

Oh, yeah, the parity algs are really hard. Don't worry about it. If you got that far without help, you've done good.

 

[TMOY]

If you know commutators, there's an easy (but not fast) way to solve your last two pieces: just apply a quarter-turn (of a face if the two unsolved pieces are corners, of a slice if they are wings), then use commutators to correct what you've disturbed.
If the unsolved pieces are centers, then it's not a real parity, just apply a commutator.

 

[Kail]

Update.

I'm able to solve first 3 layers. I find centers, then solve the fat cross on top...then place do F2L on the cube as if it were a 3x3x3, cept adding on another layer.

Now this is where its hard. I can solve corners no problem. But I have no idea how to tackle placing the edges. I think parity is...say...2 pieces across from each other and are the same column. Most of the situations I get stuck in is...

on one side there is a piece...say blue/yellow, blue up. a Quarter Turn would pair the two. I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around how to Join the two and retain what I already have.

I think you guys call it Commutators.

Where can i find some information on this? I'm not looking for an algorythm to solve these cases, just a LITTLE bit of information to help me along. If I can solve this and not know how to deal with parity, ill be happy.

 

[deco122392]

sooo the ll edges for the 4x4? if you haven't paired them then you have a k4 finish. which is simply commutators baced.
i can provide you with links to places were you can find algorithms for them but if its a matter of pride thennnn i am limited to what i can help you do.

 

[Kail]

What i'll do is take a step back and work on my 3x3x3. I think some meddling will help me visualize some cases. I checked out a video on Commutators. Kinda cool stuff. Very interesting. I'm going to mess with that a bit and then see if i can apply it to the 4x4x4 cube.

 

[Kail]

Ugh. So my latest solve of the 4x4x4 is...

all solved except for 2 corners, and the yellow/green pair..i cant flip them. (All is yellow, cept for 2 green pairs).

Frustrating. Is this a case of pairity?

 

[Vulosity]

It's an OLL case, if I read your desc. correctly.

 

[Kail]

I kept trying to apply a move from the 3x3x3 cube. A corner rotating move. I cant adjust them correctly. its weird. I figured if all the corners are in the bottom layer, it would work

what is it....

(U, R, U', L)(U, R', U', L').

This would cycle through and at least place them in the right position so i can orient them.

::sigh:: I fear I dont know enough about the cube to solve this.

 

[Kail]

Okay...well...I'm able to get to this point over and over again. Im now able to put all the pieces in the middle into place by some 3x3x3 LL moves. But the problem that I have is I can solve 3 of the edge pairs, but not the last one. I have a feeling that I can get random luck and it will solve...but random luck isnt understanding.

This is frustrating... lol

 

[soccerking813]

Don't give up on it though. I made a few intuitive algs for solving a 4x4 like a 3x3, so it is not extremely hard. I will give you a few hints below in white, only highlight if you want to read them. (They aren't algs or anything, just a few pointers.)

1.) To start, I solve one center, then the cross, then the corner/edge/edge pairs, then centers, instead of centers after cross.
2.) To make the last corner/edge/edge pair, you will have to break up what you have already solved for just one or two moves, then solve it back.
3.) The alg to do this is Lol, I won't do that.

Good luck!

 

[rahulkadukar]

Reduction method on Chris Hardwick page

 

[Kail]

Don't give up on it though. I made a few intuitive algs for solving a 4x4 like a 3x3, so it is not extremely hard. I will give you a few hints below in white, only highlight if you want to read them. (They aren't algs or anything, just a few pointers.)

1.) To start, I solve one center, then the cross, then the corner/edge/edge pairs, then centers, instead of centers after cross.
2.) To make the last corner/edge/edge pair, you will have to break up what you have already solved for just one or two moves, then solve it back.
3.) The alg to do this is Lol, I won't do that.

Good luck!

Thanks for the tips soccerking, they were helpful. I did read them after I was able to reach this point.

I have a few solves. I have 5 solves under my belt. However, they are "conditional" solves...meaning...if the cases I cant solve dont show up, I can do it.

This is my order.

1) White Center
2) Yellow Center
3) Corners of White (Top) (I do this to make sure I have the right order of the next step.
4) Other 4 Centers.
5) "Fat Cross" on white.
6) "F3L"
7) Pairing Edges
8) Orient Edges
9) Orient Corners
10) Flip Corners.

I came up with an Alg that will pair centers. When I do this though, It splits up other Pairs. With this, I can get 2 Pairs however this move will only get me so far. I can get a Solve if things just happen to work out. I gotta examine where the pieces actually go.

I dont like solving like this. Theres no control. I cant solve it whenever I want.

Problems I run into....

Right now im staring at a cube that is solved except for 2 Corners. Earlier I had a pair that I had to flip, but dont know how to do that. These sitautions are murder. I cant seem to grasp it. I'm trying not to look up any algs. I'm giving myself 2 weeks. If I cant solve it at will, I'll tutorial it.

Its upsetting. I feel like at this point, I have to keep going and find a way to figure this out. I feel like I would have a better understanding of it, if I had a better undestanding of Commuters and howt o make my own algs.

If you tried to learn the 4x4x4 (and 5x5x5, same problems, lol), and you can get as far as I can, would you keep going or just read up on how to solve it? should I be proud to be where I'm at?

I solved the 3x3x3 with a lot of help. Everyone is so impressed by it, but its upsetting. It's not a real accomplishment to me. I just followed instructions. This is why I'm trying to hard to get the 4x4x4. So when people say "wow, thats impressive" I can smile and feel accomplished as I thank them.

Ugh...