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[Help Thread] ZZ and ZB Discussion

CubeRoots

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okay, thanks for your input, but just one last thing, to preserve phasing i need algs that don't have three cycles or adjacent two cycles on the edges? thats right ain't it?

finally, the 25-30 was just the zzf2l bit:/
 

Ewks

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So hi, I've switched to ZZ after 4.5 years of nothing but CFOP last septeber. I got around my usual 15 s averages pretty quickly. (I've been at that barrier for about 3 years now.)

Now I've done some CFOP just for fun to see if I still remember it:) Turns out I'm actually a little bit faster with it than I was before I switched. Of course stuff like cross have gotten a little worse, also I've forgotten most of my OLLs, but overall I'm faster. So what I'd like you to do now is to tell me why I shouldn't take the easy route and switch back to the boring old CFOP.
 

aznanimedude

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Feb 23, 2012
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it's up to you, one nice thing about learning other methods is you find nice things taht you can incorporate into your normal solves, like my F2L is worlds better now that i do ZZ than it was before.
i unno it's just little things about ZZ solving that i like alot, like the lack of need to do Y rotations during F2L, the fact you always get an opposite color cross, so it's like you're doing VH-F2L, and the fact that opens up the ability to do several different last layer possibilities, like COLL -> EPLL, or full on ZBLL, or ZZLL + phasing. or if you don't feel like doing anything, how it reduces the number of OLL cases you need to know, since you'll always have a cross therefore only need CLL algorithms.

just my thoughts (although i'm not nearly as fast as you LOL, still trying to get around to breaking sub 20 @[email protected])
 

aznanimedude

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maybe i missed something but
what is this x-eoline some of you zz people are starting to use, did i miss something?
 

uvafan

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maybe i missed something but
what is this x-eoline some of you zz people are starting to use, did i miss something?
It is an EOLine that also has a 1x2x2 block complete. Examples:

Scramble: R2 L' F' R2 B L B2 F' D F' D R' B D2 L B2 D U2 B2 R L' U' D F' L' F'
x-EOLine: x2 R U2 L' U' D' L D

Scramble:R2 F2 L F' L2 R2 U2 R2 U2 L' D' U B' L R B L' B' F2 D2
x-EOLine: x2 R F D' L' R2 B' D' R L' U B2

Scramble: U' D' R F R U2 D R L D2 U' B' F2 U' R F' L U' B2 F
x-EOLine: R' L2 F' R' L' D'

So, yeah... you get the idea.

Edit: lol another ninja :)
 
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mDiPalma

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maybe i missed something but
what is this x-eoline some of you zz people are starting to use, did i miss something?
lolol, a few months back, I followed one of a small kitten's solve-reconstructions to note that he had part of his f2l completed after he finished eoline. so i'm like, "xeoline" (derived from x-cross). so it's like an x-cross, but for zz.

it's best when you get a xeoline by luck, but you can force them to occur relatively easily.

but please understand, the word MUST be pronounced "zeoline."
 
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aznanimedude

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Feb 23, 2012
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lol, yay now i feel in the loop

when i first saw you and uva throwing those out i thought....x....omg this better not be an eo-cross lolololol

then i just followed some of the solves you guys put in the example solve and figured out what was going on, good stuff, something new for me to look at and play around with.

thanks guys for letting me in the loop of the "zeo"
 

mDiPalma

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Could you explain how you force a lucky xeoline?
there are 2 ways.

the first is to be on your toes and be ready to preserve any pair that is made during the scramble or during the eoline phase. that is, because eoline is around 7 moves, you have seven chances for an f2l pair or d-edge-corner pair to be created. just place this block in the right spot during eoline to save you a few moves having to manually create that block later on.

the second is trying to form one of these lucky blocks by yourself. for example, here is my first scramble from cubetimer:
R U B' L F2 D U2 R' D F2 L' F' L' D' F L R2 F2 B L R' B' F2 D' L2
normal eoline (or atleast, what i would do): F R' (U' D) F L D

xxeoline (pronounced z-zeoline):
F' [make that orange blue pair]
R' U' L' D' [put bad edges on F-face without breaking up the pair]
F' [form the block with the pair and corresponding edge]
L U' R' B2 U L [pull in another pair because i feel like it]

at this point, with eoline+left block done at 12 moves, you will feel fly like a G 6.

co0l pl0x?
 

aznanimedude

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Feb 23, 2012
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my god, i've done it before by accident, but why am i only now seeing how easy it actually is to just look out for and set up roflroflrofl
 

nickvu2

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o_O
I'll have to play with this. It currently takes everything I have to plan the entire EOline. I can't imagine identifying and setting aside blocks on the fly at full speed...in addition to keeping track of EO and DF/DB edges. But you've shown it can be done.
 

mDiPalma

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o_O
I'll have to play with this. It currently takes everything I have to plan the entire EOline. I can't imagine identifying and setting aside blocks on the fly at full speed...in addition to keeping track of EO and DF/DB edges. But you've shown it can be done.
we abuse the example solve thread for xeoline practice. you should try that too.

i (and probably others too) only take advantage of simple xeolines in regular speedsolving (the pair preservation variety)...

but in OH, because my TPS is nearly a negative number, i try to force xeolines to save moves.

whatever sinks ur anchor i suppose.
 
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