# [Help Thread]Roux Discussion and Help

#### ObscureCuber

##### Member
Don't switch, stick with Roux. Unless you have a specific reason for not liking roux, I'd recommend not switching methods. Roux is just as good if not better than CFOP
i said that wrong lol i meant i was switching FROM cfop

#### KW24

##### Member
So I bet you know that the CFOP method is a very developed method. This method had developed to a point where there are algorithm subsets for solving the last slot while doing OLL, doing OLL in a way that leads to an easier PLL, and doing a special algorithm to solve the last layer in one look. But I have an idea for an algorithm subset that benefits people who use the Roux method. This subset makes you solve the last slot while orienting all the corners which can lead to a very good CMLL case. The entire algorithm starts at the beginning of the F2B case similar to ZBLS and as the M slice is open so there are various ways to use cool tricks to help lead to an easier CMLL. I call this subset idea COLS which stands for Corner Orientation Last Slot. I see there would be a crap ton of COLS cases and there are (I calculated) 24 more possible last slot F2B cases than F2L cases because of how Roux work. So I am wondering to all of you Roux solvers do you use some WV, SV, and other OLS algorithms during the last slot to lead to a better CMLL case. I personally use CFOP and my knowledge of Roux is somewhat small. All I want to do is to help develop Roux to become very competitive with CFOP.

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#### ProStar

##### Member

WV+SV can be used to orient the corners while solving the last slot, but only if it is ready for a three move insert(R U R' / R U' R'). This could be optimized for Roux to ignore EO and the M slice, making algs better

ZZ-OLS does the same thing as WV+SV, except from any setup, not just three move insert cases(like you suggested). There would be more algs than normal, because of the 2 M slice edges being available, and these also could be optimized to ignore EO+M slice

CLP solves the corners(oriented and permuted) while solving the last pair(only from a three move insert), but these could be optimized for ignoring EO+M slice

Like I said, these sets could absolutely be optimized for Roux, but the basic idea already exists. Also, there is a thread for new methods, subsets, etc. which can be found here.

By the way, I am not saying that I prefer Roux over CFOP. I still think CFOP is better as it has better look ahead and fewer regrips. Also, R U moves are better than M U moves but that is expected.
Just a tip, don't say anything about one method being better than another. It will only spark a big controversy

Edit: I just want to say something real quick: Roux is extremely competitive with CFOP, and just as good. I don't want to start an argument, but just wanted to point that out(I use CFOP)

#### Etotheipi

##### Member
This will always give you a J perm, Y Perm, or a skip, at the cost having to use an extra alg. J perms and Y perms arent the fastest of CMLLs, so your making you have to do two algs without much benefit. And the skip chance doesnt really make up for it. Its better just to do 1 look CMLL.

#### mukerflap

##### Member
Y perm is the worst cmll. The best last slot/corners method is TCMLL which has already been dismissed. Roux is probably already at its peak

#### WarriorCatCuber

##### Member
The problem with this is that you'd have to rotate if you'd have an r U r' insert.

#### KW24

##### Member

WV+SV can be used to orient the corners while solving the last slot, but only if it is ready for a three move insert(R U R' / R U' R'). This could be optimized for Roux to ignore EO and the M slice, making algs better

ZZ-OLS does the same thing as WV+SV, except from any setup, not just three move insert cases(like you suggested). There would be more algs than normal, because of the 2 M slice edges being available, and these also could be optimized to ignore EO+M slice

CLP solves the corners(oriented and permuted) while solving the last pair(only from a three move insert), but these could be optimized for ignoring EO+M slice

Like I said, these sets could absolutely be optimized for Roux, but the basic idea already exists. Also, there is a thread for new methods, subsets, etc. which can be found here.

Just a tip, don't say anything about one method being better than another. It will only spark a big controversy

Edit: I just want to say something real quick: Roux is extremely competitive with CFOP, and just as good. I don't want to start an argument, but just wanted to point that out(I use CFOP)
I know that developing it would be very easy as the resources are already there it just needs to be optimized for Roux. Also, my mistake for saying CFOP is way better than Roux. They both are very good and have great potential.

This will always give you a J perm, Y Perm, or a skip, at the cost having to use an extra alg. J perms and Y perms arent the fastest of CMLLs, so your making you have to do two algs without much benefit. And the skip chance doesnt really make up for it. Its better just to do 1 look CMLL.
I understand that diagonal or adjacent corner swap cases aren't the best as they can take long algorithms to do. A case of F sexy F' is way faster than Y or J perm. I kinda knew that because CMLL is used for the standard Roux method. I kinda feared the utility of COLS is more like VHLS in CFOP which is more useful for beginners that the more advanced.
Y perm is the worst cmll. The best last slot/corners method is TCMLL which has already been dismissed. Roux is probably already at its peak
I could see that Roux is at a peak as it is a very intuition-based method. I just want to benefit the method more as I see an opportunity. I am now fearing that COLS would be more like VHLS where it is useful just for beginners as a way to go around learning a full major subset which is bad for the long run.
The problem with this is that you'd have to rotate if you'd have an r U r' insert.
An interesting thing I guess. But I guess that those cases could have new algorithms to orient all corners.

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#### mukerflap

##### Member
The problem with this is that you'd have to rotate if you'd have an r U r' insert.
You could make more algs for that or do r U2 R'

#### KW24

##### Member
You could make more algs for that or do r U2 R'
The name for that specific set could be called Fall variation IDK.

#### mukerflap

##### Member
The name for that specific set could be called Fall variation IDK.
No point cuz it's just not a good idea. It's more algs with probably more moves and not faster

#### DerpBoiMoon

##### Member
i normally use CFOP and last night i watched jperms video on roux

i can do the 2 2x3 blocks, but i couldn't be bothered learning CMLL. so instead i did this:

solve 2 opposite cross edges

solve all f2l pairs

solve 2 remaining cross edges

OLL

PLL

would this be considered a roux subset? and are there any disadvantges to it? i could hget my normal times with it so should i switch?

#### Aerma

pro tip: just use CFOP
Really? It's okay to have opinions, but don't go into a "Roux Discussion and Help" thread and then give this kind of "advice". Please stop bashing people for doing what they find fun, it isn't hurting you.
EDIT: and if you were joking, add /s to the end of the message.

yeah I'm a bit salty, just getting really annoyed at the CFOP fanboys doing their thing

#### mukerflap

##### Member
i normally use CFOP and last night i watched jperms video on roux

i can do the 2 2x3 blocks, but i couldn't be bothered learning CMLL. so instead i did this:

solve 2 opposite cross edges

solve all f2l pairs

solve 2 remaining cross edges

OLL

PLL

would this be considered a roux subset? and are there any disadvantges to it? i could hget my normal times with it so should i switch?
That's an objectively worse variant. If your having trouble with the blocks use kian mansours roux tutorial and cmll you can use jperm and sune

#### DerpBoiMoon

##### Member
i can make blocks fine its just i do not like cmll. oh well.

i see why its worse know. f2l edges could be stuck in the DB and also cross pieces might be flipped.

i do like solving the whole cross in cfop though, might lissten to @Micah Morrison 's "advice" tho

#### Micah Morrison

##### Member
Really? It's okay to have opinions, but don't go into a "Roux Discussion and Help" thread and then give this kind of "advice". Please stop bashing people for doing what they find fun, it isn't hurting you.
EDIT: and if you were joking, add /s to the end of the message.

yeah I'm a bit salty, just getting really annoyed at the CFOP fanboys doing their thing
alright sorry, I'll delete the comment I said earlier. I honestly don't think people should convince people to use a different method on a discussion thread for a specific method. I just got mad when I saw someone do it on the CFOP discussion thread and wanted to get back.

#### WarriorCatCuber

##### Member
i normally use CFOP and last night i watched jperms video on roux

i can do the 2 2x3 blocks, but i couldn't be bothered learning CMLL. so instead i did this:

solve 2 opposite cross edges

solve all f2l pairs

solve 2 remaining cross edges

OLL

PLL

would this be considered a roux subset? and are there any disadvantges to it? i could hget my normal times with it so should i switch?
CFOP would be much better then this. If you want to do roux, just do OLL + PLL with corners.

#### ProStar

##### Member
i can make blocks fine its just i do not like cmll. oh well.

i see why its worse know. f2l edges could be stuck in the DB and also cross pieces might be flipped.

i do like solving the whole cross in cfop though, might lissten to @Micah Morrison 's "advice" tho
For CMLL you can use the OCLL algs for CFOP to orient corners, then T/J or Y to permute them. That's how to easily do 2-look CMLL, and it's what I do when I solve with Roux

#### ObscureCuber

##### Member
If you think about it sean villanueva placed 2nd at worlds and and kian mansour is sub 35 w the meyer method for 4x4 sorry for late response.

#### mukerflap

##### Member
If you think about it sean villanueva placed 2nd at worlds and and kian mansour is sub 35 w the meyer method for 4x4 sorry for late response.
and kian has almost all OH UWRS