#### Cube Equation

##### Member
Heise Method Help

I am currently attempting to learn Heise Method, but I don't understand what to do after constructing the two pairs in step 3. I don't understand how to use pair 3-cycles to permute the edges. Any help would be welcome. Thanks.

#### timeless

##### Member
try reversing the alg and see if it works

#### Cube Equation

##### Member
Alg? I don't think there are any algorithms in Heise.

#### Cubenovice

##### Forever Slow

If not make sure to get comfortable with them first. Only then switch to pair 3-cycles (= commutators with pairs instead of "just" corners).

When starting Heise it is easier to skip the "two pairs" step ans just finish with "leaving 5 corners".
This way you can get comfortable with edge manipulation and commutators before moving on to the more complicated stuff.

#### Godmil

Agh, just beaten to the punch.
Yeah, just do the single edges first then use coms on the last 5 corners.

#### Cube Equation

##### Member
Yes I have. But I'm just trying to learn the more advanced techniques as well.

#### michaelfivez

##### Member
Do you understand corner 3-cycles? If not I suggest watching badmephistos tutorial (it's doesn't explain commutators at all in my opnion but it's a easy to understand intro), then try googling some stuf about commutators till you get it. It took me 2 hours to understand using different tutorials (I honestly think they are all bad but if you combine them it works ).
Pair 3 - cyles is almost the same, I used this site : (http://www.ryanheise.com/cube/pair_3_cycles.html) and converted all the moves in the animations into scramble algorithms, then applied the single corner one to 1 cube and the pair one to another. I solved the single corner one, and then the pair one is easy because it's the same and then I got it .

#### Cubenovice

##### Forever Slow
Do you understand corner 3-cycles?
Yes I have. But I'm just trying to learn the more advanced techniques as well.
But I do like your suggestion about performing the corner and pair comm on two diff cubes!

#### bertrandzz

##### Member
Ryan Heise's Method?

I've learned Ryan Heise's beginner method, I can easily do a cube in about 1:45( My cube can't cut corner and is slow as hell I lose 30 sec fighting against it ) I want to know is Ryan heise's beginners method the same as fridrich's method? ANd do anyone has feedbacks Ryan heise's own method.

http://www.ryanheise.com/cube/

#### bertrandzz

##### Member
Ryan Heise's beginner's method is vastly different from the Fridrich/CFOP method.
Thx but is it anygood?? And is his own method good

#### Ranzha

##### Friendly, Neighbourhoodly
Thx but is it anygood?? And is his own method good
His beginner's method is very well made, and the approach is very standard as far as layer-by-layer approaches run. His own method is very efficient as far as movecount goes, but not necessarily for speedsolving.

#### RV

##### Member
I need help on the "two pairs approach".... i just use 30!! moves to get the 2 pairs and solve edges!

edit: Now 15

Last edited by a moderator:

#### A Leman

##### Member
I need help on the "two pairs approach".... i just use 30!! moves to get the 2 pairs and solve edges!
could you be more specific. It is very intuitive. what exactly are you having trouble with during the 2 pairs step?

#### RV

##### Member
could you be more specific. It is very intuitive. what exactly are you having trouble with during the 2 pairs step?
I can solve the pairs very nicely, but i can't solve the edges without destroying the pairs.

#### elrog

##### Member
The best way I found to keep from destroying your pairs is to hide them. You can look at this as hiding, or you can look at it as placing incorrect corner pieces on the side your going to turn such that if you were using the right and U sides, the top right 3 pieces would not be correct. I see it both ways, depending on the case. If your using the right side and U moves to move your edges, use the left side to hide the pairs. You must remember to bring your pairs back up after you switch the edge you hid the pair to switch.

#### RV

##### Member
The best way I found to keep from destroying your pairs is to hide them. You can look at this as hiding, or you can look at it as placing incorrect corner pieces on the side your going to turn such that if you were using the right and U sides, the top right 3 pieces would not be correct. I see it both ways, depending on the case. If your using the right side and U moves to move your edges, use the left side to hide the pairs. You must remember to bring your pairs back up after you switch the edge you hid the pair to switch.
Yes, i do that, but when i bring back the side, i look and see that i destroyed the DLF section

#### The Supreme One

##### Member
I learned Heise about a week ago, I must say that it makes your F2L/Cross a little bit more efficient in CFOP, but where it really pays off is in the LL, if I see optimal Heise cases coming, then I switch to Heise and solve the LL in like 15-20 moves, averting my 40 move 3-look fail method of CFOP. It also made WV tactics and edges-last (Roux, Waterman) a walk in the park.

But anyway, I've been having small problems with two pairs when there is an inverted pair, or in any case where two pairs (often i get three or four pairs inadvertently) are in an L shape. I can tell that the one-pair approach will alleviate all such problems, but no one on earth (meaning Youtube) uses or appears to understand one-pair. If anyone here uses it, what is the thought process or jist of things when you are doing it?

I'm not asking for a bunch of algs, more of a what to look at first or how you think about permuting those edges on the path to matching the second pair.

#### elrog

##### Member
When doing the 2 pairs at the same time, sometimes you can put one of the pairs into the F2L slot and make things much easier. If you have an edge in the slot that has the top color in it, this limits your moves because you don't want to break the edge orientation. You could try getting the edge that goes into the slot in it so that you can change your EO to a different axis. If you can't do this, you could try doing a move to unmatch a 2x2x3 block in your F2L, moving the slot, so you can then place one of the pairs in the slot an solve all of the edges. You would then undo your move to unmatch the block and porceed as normal. Whatever option you choose just depends on where your pairs are.

With the one pairs approach, you can very easily get the pair solved and the edges solved with experience. It is only comparable move count wise if you have a very good corner setup afterwards. It is mostly just for ease of recognition.

I tend to try and see if there are any easily matchable pairs and what I find affects what approach I will use. most of the time, the two pairs approach will weild the best results. I have occasionaly used the one pair or no pair approach if I see that the edges are a move or two away from being solved, and I'd rather not go out of my way trying to match a pair when it would take just as many moves as an added commutator afterwards. Do not forget that you can also solve some edges and some corners and use a commutator with edges to match up the edges. I mainly use this when I don't already have edges oriented.

If you end up with many pairs without trying to, you can either continue on without stopping with the pairs you are doing if you don't want to have to re-recognize the case. You could also look for 2 pairs that are easy to keep solved while solving the edge permutation.

One very useful tool is to hide pairs in the F2L, while bringing up part of the F2L, but in a different position. An example would be hiding a pair in the UL and ULF position making it become UL and UBL by doing an L move. You will have to solve the edges such that you can actually solve them by undoing your L move. You need to make sure that you dont use a side to hide a pair that will interfere with the side you are using to permute edges. You can also do this to 2 pairs at once. If you have a pair in the UL ULB position and the UB UBR position, you can do L' U' L' to change the pairs making them face the other direction.

Another way of thinking of the same thing mentioned above is to think that you need all of the pieces in the layer your going to turn to be unsolved pieces. I really am not sure at all how to explain this.

I hope that atleast some of this made sense. I would love to make a in depth tutorial on commutators and heise, but I don't have a camera.

#### The Supreme One

##### Member
ummmm....
a lot of those tactics i use, but i'll add that usually one of the pairs i'm keeping is the one that belongs in the F2L slot. this makes hiding it difficult when you have to pull it down

the other thing is that commutators are easy for me, so even if there is some bizarre outcome, it still usually has a one or two move conjugate

what i was asking was more along the lines of "what do you look for in the recognition?" more in the sense of "how to tell which out of the like 20 possible G-perms you have" instead of "what's the alg for this G-perm"