[Help Thread] F2L Intuitive vs. Algorithm Solving

[Godmil]

As Apple said, I'm not voting because I think they are the same thing.

 

[IQubic]

It's difficult to draw a line between the two. After learning intuitively, its just turns into an ALg. And when you learn a alg, you watch what it does and break it down into its intuitive steps in a completely different way to learning a pll alg. I don't think anyone does one or the other, as the end result i always the same.

What!!! As the poll's creator I disagree, case in point, I am learning VHLS, do I understand the algs, no. Well each and every one of us has an opinion, so I think I will leave it at that.

 

[Jaycee]

I agree with applemobile (as I assume many people do). Never did I ever attempt to memorize any F2L algorithms, yet I use the same intuitive moves for each case that it's algorithmic. Even when someone posts a new alg for a certain case and I want to use it, I don't memorize the alg, I just follow along with the moves one time on my cube and see how it works. I probably couldn't even tell you the moves I use for certain cases right off the top of my head because sometimes my thought process during F2L is "so i do this to get that there... hide that... match it and in" lol.

 

[RNewms27]

A better title would be 'How did you learn F2L? Intuition/Algorithms'

I learned intuitively. I execute it more algorithmically now because I've done it for awhile and it improves my look-ahead

 

[Hunter]

RNewmus is right. The poll creator means if when you lean you look up actual algs, or if you create algs from muscle memory.

I recommend intuition.

 

[applemobile]

What!!! As the poll's creator I disagree, case in point, I am learning VHLS, do I understand the algs, no. Well each and every one of us has an opinion, so I think I will leave it at that.

Everyone is entitled to a wrong opinion.

 

[A Leman]

What!!! As the poll's creator I disagree, case in point, I am learning VHLS, do I understand the algs, no. Well each and every one of us has an opinion, so I think I will leave it at that.

Vhls is harder to understand intuitively because LS methods do more than just insert the pair, but if you understand moves that affect EO(F/B turns and things like M'UM), VHLS is intuitive

In general, the more you know about your cube, the more intuitive everything is.

 

[kelseymckenna]

I think that if time was not an issue then learning by intuition or algorithms doesn't really matter. However, if you know how to solve a case intuitively then you can solve it from any angle. This means that you don't have to learn twice as many algorithms; it's more about learning the recognition in this case. This means that learning many F2L cases is nicer through intuition. I hand generated all of my F2L cases until I was averaging about 16 seconds, then I tried to find algs for special cases. (P.S. Learning through intuition/non-algorithms is more fun )

 

[IQubic]

Opions are not facts, they can not be disproven.

 

[Rob2109]

I've actually learnt F2L by a combination of the two. I started looking at the algs for all the cases and memorised most of those, then discovered the BadMephisto video about intuitive F2L and went from there. I don’t necessarily use the same alg from all four angles as the FR one is sometimes not finger-tricky from the BL or FL. The majority of the 164 cases I’ve learnt intuitively but it’s handy to generate Cube Explorer algs for each, just to make sure you’re using the most efficient finger tricky alg.

 

[Smiles]

I didn't know where to start with F2L, so I went on the speedsolving wiki and looked at some of the algs. Just by figuring out how they worked, I was able to do almost all of F2L intuitively. I figured out there were 5 different distinct cases, one where you join the edges on the U layer by hiding the corner, one where you get them across from each other by hiding the corner (or even the edge) and one where the corner is oriented upwards (white on top). the other 2 are when the edge or corner is already in the slot. many cases can be reduced to a different case.

so after looking at the algs, i figured it all out intuitively, except for the awkward cases that i memorized algs for.

after having a full understanding of basic F2L, i realized i was doing some things inefficiently and i went on the site again to look for more ways to improve my algorithms. at that point, i recognized different cases and algorithms after tons of repetition, instead of trying to intuitively solve the case.

afterwards, i learned tons of different cases, such as different ways to pair up the corner-edge when the edge is slotted and misoriented with the corner anywhere in the U layer.

 

[Ranzha]

Opions are not facts, they can not be disproven.

Opinions can be disproven if they are based on fallacies.

You can't analogise learning VHLS with learning F2L particularly because you don't know how VHLS works yet.
I'm learning WV, and yet I understand how some of the algs work. It makes sense what they're doing. Until you understand the concepts behind the moves you're making, it is unsafe to distinguish.
Ignorance leads to mindless repetition. Knowledge leads to mindless repetition with an explanation.

 

[ottozing]

I think doing anything aside from learning both is stupid.

 

[Johnnyman318]

At first it's a big contrast, if you're doing it algorithmically then the F2L seems to form mechanically, and intuitively will help you know how the pieces move around. Eventually, they sort of meld together.

 

[IQubic]

Opinions can be disproven if they are based on fallacies.

You can't analogise learning VHLS with learning F2L particularly because you don't know how VHLS works yet.
I'm learning WV, and yet I understand how some of the algs work. It makes sense what they're doing. Until you understand the concepts behind the moves you're making, it is unsafe to distinguish.
Ignorance leads to mindless repetition. Knowledge leads to mindless repetition with an explanation.

What I mean is, Learniing VHLS algs is like learning PLL algs I don't understand how they work.

What!!! As the poll's creator I disagree, case in point, I am learning VHLS, do I understand the algs, no. Well each and every one of us has an opinion, so I think I will leave it at that.

My brain does not see how the algs work. I can not break a alg into intuitive steps.

 

[Ranzha]

What I mean is, Learniing VHLS algs is like learning PLL algs I don't understand how they work.

My brain does not see how the algs work. I can not break a alg into intuitive steps

I'll give an example of a VHLS case that can be broken into steps:
R' F' R U2 M' U' M
It's pretty elegant, but not particularly nominal.
The R' F' R inserts the pair into its slot, preserving the FR pair and at the same time taking out the cross piece.
The ousted cross piece is now unoriented, and with the U2 M' U' M both orients and inserts the cross piece, but orients the other edges.

Make sense so far?

 

[McCuber16]

I learned through intuition, then I just use muscle memory.

 

[IQubic]

Well yes, but other VHLS alg are not easily broken into steps like that. Oh and look if each intuitive F2L solver learned 1 OLL alg every OLL alg would be learned.

 

[A Leman]

Well yes, but other VHLS alg are not easily broken into steps like that. Oh and look if each intuitive F2L solver learned 1 OLL alg every OLL alg would be learned.

Let's try some more. AN F/F' Turn changes EO and the fixed piece is swaped with the other bad Edge and the F/F' move is undone while inserting the pair. This is done with all vhls algs in some order.
EX. R'FRF'
1.R' insert
2.F F turn
3.R swap
4.F' undo F

EX. UF'L'U'LF
U AUF
1. F' the F turn
2.L'U'L Swap and insert
3.F undo the F turn

Ex URB'U'BR'
U AUF
R this is a setup to protect the spair while you swap in the back
1. B' this is another F/B turn
2. U' Swap
3.B Undo F/B turn
4.Insert

All of them can be broken down like that and it's easy to see. Intuition is an important part of understanding an alg. Think carefully that most of the F2l tricks were found by cubers by hand.
Watch Faz's how to get faster video. He even states that he learned VHLS before OLL intuitively. I don't know how much else I can do to explain.

 

[Ranzha]

Well yes, but other VHLS alg are not easily broken into steps like that. Oh and look if each intuitive F2L solver learned 1 OLL alg every OLL alg would be learned.

That makes absolutely no sense.