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Learn F2L intuitively or Memorizing Full Algorithms?

Which one is quicker?


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YrMyKnight

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Ok guys. I've started learning F2L and know how to excecute them intuitively.
I wanted know if I should still memorize them?

Do those people such as,Michal,Feliks,Erik and many other great cubers apply them intuitively? (I believe they use ZBF2L)

If intuitively is faster I think I should'nt waste my time on learning those Algorithms.

Thx
 

JasonK

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Even if you learn it intuitively, eventually the cases get drilled in so much that they become like 'intuitive algroithms'; in other words you no longer have to think about how to solve a case, you're just able to do it without thinking. Once you start getting better at this it's a good idea to learn some faster algorithms for the more difficult cases.
 

kpcube

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I would say intuitive minus a few cases that just suck to figure out something optimal/ do-able for.

Anthony Brooks (The Westonian) has a pretty sweet video going over a few of those cases. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltRk3QjGtmg&feature=channel

Some of them are pretty obvious, others notsomuch but still hope it helps.

Take F2L very slow make sure you get all of your solutions under your fingers. The biggest thing to remember is that wi an intuitive aapproach you are creating your own algs. All 42 cases can be broken down into the basic 3 and your job is to figure out which of them makes the most amount of sense for the situation your in, avoiding awkward cube rotations and extra moves for example as the F2L is all about efficiency.



Take this case for example and assume no open slots: You could set it up so that white was on top and solve it that way (R U2 R' U2 Y L' U2 L U' L' U L) A fine solution but there is a cube rotation and its a little long. you could rotate first and solve it as follows: (Y L' U L U' L' U2 L U2 L' U L) solving with the rotation in front doesn't inturupt the flow of the actual alg itself which is great as it helps with consistancy however it is rather long. Comparitively if we think about it there is a way to make this case very very simple using a double layer turn (d in this case) the alg then becomes very simple and aviods a left hand exicution which most beginning cubers find difficult, I know I did and in some cases still do. So with the d move the alg is as follows : (d R' U R U' R' U' R) This alg is 8 moves as opposed to the other two which are 12 moves long. It is these sort of inventive solutions that an intuitive approach allows, with a pure alg you hsve to set the correct possition then exicute, which takes valuable seconds. Though in most cases this is a much more difficult approach once you find something that works you can really can reap the benifits.

Each of the cubers you mentioned are intuitive solvers, I know that Feliks knows some ZBF2L but it isn't his bread and butter so to speak. I can't say if the others use ZBF2L but i'm sure they know a few cases here and there.
 
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YrMyKnight

Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2011
Messages
179
I would say intuitive minus a few cases that just suck to figure out something optimal/ do-able for.

Anthony Brooks (The Westonian) has a pretty sweet video going over a few of those cases. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltRk3QjGtmg&feature=channel

Some of them are pretty obvious, others notsomuch but still hope it helps.

Take F2L very slow make sure you get all of your solutions under your fingers. The biggest thing to remember is that wi an intuitive aapproach you are creating your own algs. All 42 cases can be broken down into the basic 3 and your job is to figure out which of them makes the most amount of sense for the situation your in, avoiding awkward cube rotations and extra moves for example as the F2L is all about efficiency.



Take this case for example and assume no open slots: You could set it up so that white was on top and solve it that way (R U2 R' U2 Y L' U2 L U' L' U L) A fine solution but there is a cube rotation and its a little long. you could rotate first and solve it as follows: (Y L' U L U' L' U2 L U2 L' U L) solving with the rotation in front doesn't inturupt the flow of the actual alg itself which is great as it helps with consistancy however it is rather long. Comparitively if we think about it there is a way to make this case very very simple using a double layer turn (d in this case) the alg then becomes very simple and aviods a left hand exicution which most beginning cubers find difficult, I know I did and in some cases still do. So with the d move the alg is as follows : (d R' U R U' R' U' R) This alg is 8 moves as opposed to the other two which are 12 moves long. It is these sort of inventive solutions that an intuitive approach allows, with a pure alg you hsve to set the correct possition then exicute, which takes valuable seconds. Though in most cases this is a much more difficult approach once you find something that works you can really can reap the benifits.

Each of the cubers you mentioned are intuitive solvers, I know that Feliks knows some ZBF2L but it isn't his bread and butter so to speak. I can't say if the others use ZBF2L but i'm sure they know a few cases here and there.

So it means that it doesnt take ZBF2L to get under 10 secs. Thats a relieve. phew ;/
They use CFOP rite?
 
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kpcube

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Yes they do and yes you can it just takes practice, lots and lots of good practice.
 

blakedacuber

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Roux is also sub10-able so dont rule that out... There are plenty of fast roux solvers out there( waffo, kirjava, big green, 5 BLD etc) but if you have made your mind up that you wanna learn cfop for f2l i reccomend you do it intuitively but for cases you feel are too long take a look at the algs for that case and see if you can make your own variation of the alg.
 

YrMyKnight

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Roux is also sub10-able so dont rule that out... There are plenty of fast roux solvers out there( waffo, kirjava, big green, 5 BLD etc) but if you have made your mind up that you wanna learn cfop for f2l i reccomend you do it intuitively but for cases you feel are too long take a look at the algs for that case and see if you can make your own variation of the alg.
Ok . Thanks
 

David Emms

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When I first started learning F2L, I naively thought that I would have to learn each algorithm individually.

I quickly realised that this was a bad idea, because I was spending too much time looking up algorithms than actually solving the cube.

I then begun sitting there staring at the cube as I was working on F2L (slowly solving), and I could see my times improving much quicker.

After constantly practising, I have realised which cases I needed to learn an algorithm for (I say LEARN, but I only had to perform it once and I wont forget it (this is from practising so much which helped me learn how F2L works)).

I've cut my average down by about 60% in the last 2 weeks from doing this. Just keep practising!
 

Godmil

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I lol'd.
And I tried the 'alg' you posted, that is intuitive, how are you doing it in 12 moves? ;_;
ETM.
Firstly don't be fooled into thinking ZB is the ultimate method, in reality it's too complicated which makes it harder to get fast at it.
Secondly Kirjava said it best with "intuitive becomes algorithmic and algorithms become intuitive." I think it all kinda leads to the same end goal. Looking up lags can be great for optimising, just try to understand them well enough that you can mirror and reflect them in your head for aiming at different slots.
 

YrMyKnight

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ETM.
Firstly don't be fooled into thinking ZB is the ultimate method, in reality it's too complicated which makes it harder to get fast at it.
Secondly Kirjava said it best with "intuitive becomes algorithmic and algorithms become intuitive." I think it all kinda leads to the same end goal. Looking up lags can be great for optimising, just try to understand them well enough that you can mirror and reflect them in your head for aiming at different slots.
HEY! I just did that! I solve my cube in front of the mirror and it HELP ME ALOT!
I understand where the pieces will go when I make each step. I became a sub-40 now :D
 

kajitatsu

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Dec 29, 2008
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I think intuitive F2L translates into executing more easily from other directions. There are going to be awkward cases where you'll need algorithms but it's also good to figure out why they work.
 
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