[Help Thread] 4x4 Discussion

[DavidWoner]

whoa i am actually better than you at something? weird. my breakdown is like 20-25/25/40(w/o parity). sigh, edges are really the only part i dont suck at...

 

[hdskull]

whoa i am actually better than you at something? weird. my breakdown is like 20-25/25/40(w/o parity). sigh, edges are really the only part i dont suck at...

Talking about me ? haha, yea I suck at the 4x4, plan to improve though, lol.

 

[DavidWoner]

whoa i am actually better than you at something? weird. my breakdown is like 20-25/25/40(w/o parity). sigh, edges are really the only part i dont suck at...

Talking about me ? haha, yea I suck at the 4x4, plan to improve though, lol.

lol well edges are the only part i beat you on... youre still better than me overall.

 

[Lt-UnReaL]

How do the people that use the E ring get edges on the E ring when they are in the D layer? For half of the cases I can find a way to rotate it so it will be finger tricky, but the other half I have to use D turns and its all ugly...

That's why I pair in the M-ring.

Centers: 20.64, (17.30), 18.82, 18.52, 23.20, 24.12, 21.75, 24.72, 18.54, 21.83, 17.91, (25.99) = 21.00

Edges: 39.95, 33.35, (1:11.46), 51.15, 35.35, 40.94, 55.03, 40.04, 44.15, 44.49, 55.58, (31.54) = 44.00

3x3: (29.96), 26.36, 26.80, 23.24, 22.97, 27.97, 24.92, 25.58, (22.62), 28.31, 22.62, 25.26 = 25.40

I gave myself ~1 second of inspection for the edges and 3x3 step (for look ahead). I also didn't do any parity cases for the average of the 3x3 step.

So my edges step obviously needs some working on, but I can't do those nasty D turns, like I said...

 

[Dene]

Gah, I'm still waiting for my ES! I'm sure when I get it I will cleanly cut 20 seconds off my 3x3x3 times (which can be over 50 seconds with double parity!) Then I will be the first to sub1:10!

 

[Vulosity]

I really suck at the 4x4.I use Rubik's because my Eastsheen is broken.
On average,
Centers:20 sec
Edges:45-50 sec.
3x3 Phase:40 sec.(I averge 25 sec on a 3x3)

Which goes to about 2 min.

 

[Frawsty]

4x4 help needed

I am having trouble learning the really long parity on the 4x4,can someone help me?

 

[waffle=ijm]

break the alg down. and use the search for more help

 

[EmersonHerrmann]

Just practice it, move by move, you start with r2, once you can remmeber that you learn the next move (B2), and then the next (U2) and so on. Good luck

 

[Vulosity]

Use the search function. There's tons of posts/threads like this already.

 

[Frawsty]

Thanks that helped me alot!!!

*@ Vulosity, you stole my post.

 

[StachuK1992]

learn it for the 5x5...somehow it made it easier for me...
just turn the outer 2 layers

 

[cookingfat]

hello. I'm new (and slow) but I hope this might help.

I learn't (and remembered) those algorithms by doing them over and over again on gabbasoft cube demo on a solved cube. you may have to look at the written algorithm to help you at first, but after a few times of doing it you can remember the first few turns, then a few after that, until you don't need to look at the sheet anymore.

 

[cookingfat]

help with pairing 2 edges at a time on 4x4x4

ok, so I want to try and reduce my times and turns on solving the rubik's revenge. At the moment I'm using single edge pairing but trying to double edge pair as well. sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I want to know how I can pair 2 edges up every time.

let me try and explain. I start by getting 2 of the same edges kiddy corner as normal. In this case it's white/blue. Like this

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c247/cooking_fat_123/cube1.jpg

then in this case I will get the green/white to the top, so I can use it as my trash edge to bring back down. Like this >

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c247/cooking_fat_123/cube2.jpg

when I perform the move to match up the edge piece move to the top layer and bring back the green/white piece, they match. Success this time as my blue/white edge is safe on the top and I've matched the green/white with the slice back. Like this>

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c247/cooking_fat_123/cube3.jpg

Here's where I'm stuck. This case I get the red/yellow edges kiddy corner. Like this >

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c247/cooking_fat_123/cube4.jpg

and bring the red/blue to the top to use as my trash edge. Like this >

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c247/cooking_fat_123/cube5.jpg

This time when I do the move and slice back, the red/blue pieces are directly opposite each other and have not matched. Like this >

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c247/cooking_fat_123/cube6.jpg

Is there a method to make sure you perform a double edge pair every single time?

sorry for the long explanation, but I needed you to understand my problem.

thanks.

oh btw, I use the B face to bring my trash edge to the top.

 

[Mike Hughey]

This would be so much easier to show in person. As is, I'm not even sure I understand exactly how you do it. But there's a simple principle that hopefully you can figure out yourself that might help you figure out what you're doing wrong.

When you go to replace the edge, there are two different directions you can go. It sounds like you might be saying you're using the B face; that probably means you can either use B or R' to do it. Sometimes the edge you're replacing with will be in the way and you'll have to move it out of the way, but you need to use the correct face so as to avoid this problem. Perhaps if you play with it a bit, you'll see?

Sorry if this is unclear - I hope it still helps somehow.

 

[Marvolo]

Try switch the FL edge...

 

[DavidWoner]

i know exactly what you are doing and how you are doing this, but before i answer your question i have one of my own: do you only pair by bringing the top double-edge into the lower one? because you need to be able to bring the bottom to the upper one for effective double edge pairing. this is why I like M-slice pairing instead of U-slice, its RL moves instead of D.

Okay, on to how to pair these edges. you are going to have to do what i asked you about, and bring the bottom edge(left) to the top edge(right) but we need some setup first.

setup alg: U 3B2(move all slices except for F 180 degrees)

you have now set-up the relfection of the case you showed first. to pair this you will do this:

Dw (this pairs them)
R' moves new pair out of the way
D' replaces pair with "trash edge" as you call it
R put "trash edge" in position
Dw' pairs "trash edge"

Edit: i just noticed that you keep the "trash edge" in a different place than i do. let me see if i can redo this...

Setup:
F R' F' D'
ok now its the mirror of the case you showed.

execution:
Uw L D' L' Uw'
i dont know if thats the pairing alg you use, but you shouldnt be using anything longer than that.


okay heres the thing: you should probably switch the location of your second(trash) edge to the position i described. because it is not on the same face as the two you are pairing, setup will be a lot easier to see and to actually execute. im pretty sure that setting up the seconds edge for my way has a maximum of 3 moves and averages around 2, and your method just gave 4, which i would imagine is quite common.

Also i would like to pitch the virtues of M-slice pairing instead of E-slice. for M-slice, I only use R, U, L, F and 3D(=U + rotation) moves which are all fast. very rarely i will have to use a single D move during setup. with your E-slice method, you have to use a bunch of B and B-slice moves with a lot of D moves, which are slow. if you are still fairly new to 4x4, or at least new to double edge pairing, then it is not too late to switch.

 

[cookingfat]

i know exactly what you are doing and how you are doing this, but before i answer your question i have one of my own: do you only pair by bringing the top double-edge into the lower one? because you need to be able to bring the bottom to the upper one for effective double edge pairing. this is why I like M-slice pairing instead of U-slice, its RL moves instead of D.

Okay, on to how to pair these edges. you are going to have to do what i asked you about, and bring the bottom edge(left) to the top edge(right) but we need some setup first.

setup alg: U 3B2(move all slices except for F 180 degrees)

you have now set-up the relfection of the case you showed first. to pair this you will do this:

Dw (this pairs them)
R' moves new pair out of the way
D' replaces pair with "trash edge" as you call it
R put "trash edge" in position
Dw' pairs "trash edge"

Edit: i just noticed that you keep the "trash edge" in a different place than i do. let me see if i can redo this...

Setup:
F R' F' D'
ok now its the mirror of the case you showed.

execution:
Uw L D' L' Uw'
i dont know if thats the pairing alg you use, but you shouldnt be using anything longer than that.


okay heres the thing: you should probably switch the location of your second(trash) edge to the position i described. because it is not on the same face as the two you are pairing, setup will be a lot easier to see and to actually execute. im pretty sure that setting up the seconds edge for my way has a maximum of 3 moves and averages around 2, and your method just gave 4, which i would imagine is quite common.

Also i would like to pitch the virtues of M-slice pairing instead of E-slice. for M-slice, I only use R, U, L, F and 3D(=U + rotation) moves which are all fast. very rarely i will have to use a single D move during setup. with your E-slice method, you have to use a bunch of B and B-slice moves with a lot of D moves, which are slow. if you are still fairly new to 4x4, or at least new to double edge pairing, then it is not too late to switch.

thanks, to answer your question, I was always slicing with Uw or Dw' and always bringing my new good edge to the top with L', AUF and bringing the trash edge back down with L, so the pairing alg I used would be either - Uw L' U L Uw' or Dw' L' U L Dw

I read your post about 4 times, and have now realised that I can slice 2 ways, either Uw then L' to bring it up or Dw then R to bring it up (the way I hold it anyway) and it makes a difference to how your 2nd pair end up.

I think I might try switching to M slices, is it basically just the same as my way with the cube tilted then?

 

[DavidWoner]

I think I might try switching to M slices, is it basically just the same as my way with the cube tilted then?

yes it is.

 

[rjohnson_8ball]

Cookingfat, I solve edges the way you do, 2 pairs at a time from 3 pairs. My preferred method for your 5th jpg is to do U' F R' F' which flips that pair on top so you can do your sequence. Another method is to perform your sequence from the other side, moving the other red-yellow piece (which has the correct orientation relative to the top piece).

Sometimes the 2 pairs you want to solve are in 2 pairs rather than 3. (This happens to me a lot when my pairing is nearly done.) I purposely perform your sequence without matching any pairs, allowing me next to arrange and solve all 3 pairs at once. (On bigger cubes, one of the "solved edges" might have flipped cubies. I try to confine all flipped cubies to just that one edge. Later, I do that algorithm that only flips an "l" cubie with "r" cubie on one edge.)

Our methods are not as fast as what some cubers use on big cubes.