Nir1213's Quest to Sub-20 with CFOP!

[Nir1213]

I would focus on learning as many PLL algorithms as you can, and learning to recognize quickly which one to apply. You could easily get your PLL time to less than 5 seconds. It just takes time to learn, and to recognize which one is needed. In other words, the more you practice, the better you’ll get!

okokokok lets not go overboard here lol

anyway i know how to do all zbf2l actually now dont need any practice anymore i remember them all.
Problem is i execute them slowly so i gotta work on that
so im gonna do 4LLL right now and practice those cases and algs
im gonna use https://cubingcheatsheet.com/algs3x_2loll.html to help me.

 

[Skewb_Cube]

okokokok lets not go overboard here lol

anyway i know how to do all zbf2l actually now dont need any practice anymore i remember them all.
Problem is i execute them slowly so i gotta work on that
so im gonna do 4LLL right now and practice those cases and algs
im gonna use https://cubingcheatsheet.com/algs3x_2loll.html to help me.

Ok, nice. But remember to still drill your zbF2L algs so they are completely in your muscle memory, so you perform and recognize them faster.

For your 4LLL algs, remember to execute them with good fingertricks, because that's going to help you to do them fast.

 

[xyzzy]

What in the world is going on here? Why is everyone calling VHLS "ZBF2L"? (Yes, ZBLS/ZBF2L is a superset of VHLS, so this is not wrong per se, but it's needlessly misleading.)

Going out of your way to learn full VHLS (or even just the R U' R' half of it) only really makes sense if you're also planning to learn huge chunks of ZBLL in the future. If not, for the same number of algs to learn, you're better off learning a bunch of easy OLL cases instead. In terms of time savings, VHLS versus easy OLLs are probably roughly equal, but the latter offers a clear path for improvement: just continue learning more OLL algs.

More concretely, learn these algs (you can defer the dot cases to later): https://www.speedsolving.com/attachments/olltopthird-pdf.2800/

 

[Nir1213]

What in the world is going on here? Why is everyone calling VHLS "ZBF2L"? (Yes, ZBLS/ZBF2L is a superset of VHLS, so this is not wrong per se, but it's needlessly misleading.)

Going out of your way to learn full VHLS (or even just the R U' R' half of it) only really makes sense if you're also planning to learn huge chunks of ZBLL in the future. If not, for the same number of algs to learn, you're better off learning a bunch of easy OLL cases instead. In terms of time savings, VHLS versus easy OLLs are probably roughly equal, but the latter offers a clear path for improvement: just continue learning more OLL algs.

More concretely, learn these algs (you can defer the dot cases to later): https://www.speedsolving.com/attachments/olltopthird-pdf.2800/

ZBF2L is actually better than 2 look oll because in ZBF2L you finish the cross on top while executing your last layer, while in 2 look oll, you have to execute all the f2l pairs and then make the cross on top. ZBF2L is faster in making a cross, which cuts off three 2 look olls needed, which are these:

Spoiler

These are dot, l shaped, and line oll cases, which you have to do AFTER inserting a f2l pair.
ZBF2L does this WHILE inserting an F2L pair, which means that its faster than these 3 olls.
That means i can learn less olls, while getting a faster time
Note this is only an alternative if you want to get faster while learning less 2-look olls, not 1 look oll.
after i get sub 1 minute, or even sub 50 seconds, i will switch to 1 look oll and pll which is faster then the zbf2l alternative.

 

[Username: Username:]

ZBF2L is actually better than 2 look oll because in ZBF2L you finish the cross on top while executing your last layer, while in 2 look oll, you have to execute all the f2l pairs and then make the cross on top. ZBF2L is faster in making a cross, which cuts off three 2 look olls needed, which are these:

Why is everyone calling VHLS "ZBF2L"?

Lol. Anyway, 2 look OLL is about the same as VHLS + 7 OLLs, 1 look for making the pair and another for VHLS, then another for the 7 OLLs, compared to 2 look OLL, one look for solving the pair, then making all the edges oriented and one more look for solving OLL.
Like xyzzy said, just learn OLLs here and there, please don't do the easy bad thing and throwing away the hard but good thing.

 

[Nir1213]

Lol. Anyway, 2 look OLL is about the same as VHLS + 7 OLLs, 1 look for making the pair and another for VHLS, then another for the 7 OLLs, compared to 2 look OLL, one look for solving the pair, then making all the edges oriented and one more look for solving OLL.
Like xyzzy said, just learn OLLs here and there, please don't do the easy bad thing and throwing away the hard but good thing.

its not easy and bad and i edited my post so look again please.

 

[Username: Username:]

its not easy and bad and i edited my post so look again please.

2 look OLL steps:
1: Solve the pair
2: make the cross
3: solve OLL

VHLS thing:
1: Make the pair
2: Do VHLS (before inserting the pair)
3: Solve OLL

 

[Nir1213]

2 look OLL steps:
1: Solve the pair
2: make the cross
3: solve OLL

VHLS thing:
1: Make the pair
2: Do VHLS (before inserting the pair)
3: Solve OLL

you misunderstood, number two and three in ZBF2L, are the same thing
and get your terms right its ZBF2L not VHLS thats another thing
oh wait they are the same thing just looked at speedsolving wiki and you can call zbf2l or vhls or vhf2l which are pretty much the same thing
xyz guy was right but they are the same thing they are not subsets
AND YOU DO NOT MAKE THE PAIR YOU DO THIS (cant explain idk how)

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you see while i was inserting the f2l i skipped putting the f2l pair into the layer, so i can do zbf2l and solve the f2l pair while solving the cross also at the same time.
note the background sound in the video pls ignore

 

[Username: Username:]

you misunderstood, number two and three in ZBF2L, are the same thing

If you know tell me what your ZBF2L thing does, does it solve the F2L pair while orienting the edges? then that's really ZBLS which has like 300 cases btw, and if your thing forms the pair then make the cross on top while inserting the pair, then it's VHLS.

 

[xyzzy]

ZBF2L is actually better than 2 look oll because in ZBF2L you finish the cross on top while executing your last layer, while in 2 look oll, you have to execute all the f2l pairs and then make the cross on top. ZBF2L is faster in making a cross, which cuts off three 2 look olls needed, which are these:

Yes, I am not disputing this. What I am disputing is that VHLS + corner OLL is a good way for beginners to improve quickly. Compare these methods:

Method 1 (what Kyle suggested):
1. Form pair.
2. Do VHLS.
3. Corner-only OLL.
4. PLL.

Method 2 (what I'm suggesting):
1. Solve last slot.
2. If it's an easy OLL case, do it. If not, do EOLL.
3. Do corner-only OLL if necessary.
4. PLL.

These methods are, like I said, probably roughly equal when considered in isolation. They're both compromise methods that let you bypass learning full OLL. But method 1 has no clear path for improvement! Combining steps 1 and 2 gives you (full) ZBLS, which has hundreds of cases. Combining steps 2 and 3 gives you VLS, which also has hundreds of cases. Combining steps 3 and 4 gives you ZBLL, which, guess what, has hundreds of cases too!

With method 2, combining steps 2 and 3 is just full OLL, with only 58 cases (roughly 30-40 additional algs over the easy OLL cases).

Fine, so maybe you plan to pivot from method 1 to method 2. But now the VHLS algs you learnt become useless. Once you've learnt most of OLL, it's almost always better to do a 3-move insert into OLL than VHLS into corner-only OLL.

AND YOU DO NOT MAKE THE PAIR YOU DO THIS (cant explain idk how)

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you see while i was inserting the f2l i skipped putting the f2l pair into the layer, so i can do zbf2l and solve the f2l pair while solving the cross also at the same time.

This specific example is insanely bad. It's (much) worse than inserting the pair and doing 2-look OLL. Stop doing this.

 

[Nir1213]

Yes, I am not disputing this. What I am disputing is that VHLS + corner OLL is a good way for beginners to improve quickly. Compare these methods:

Method 1 (what Kyle suggested):
1. Form pair.
2. Do VHLS.
3. Corner-only OLL.
4. PLL.

Method 2 (what I'm suggesting):
1. Solve last slot.
2. If it's an easy OLL case, do it. If not, do EOLL.
3. Do corner-only OLL if necessary.
4. PLL.

These methods are, like I said, probably roughly equal when considered in isolation. They're both compromise methods that let you bypass learning full OLL. But method 1 has no clear path for improvement! Combining steps 1 and 2 gives you (full) ZBLS, which has hundreds of cases. Combining steps 2 and 3 gives you VLS, which also has hundreds of cases. Combining steps 3 and 4 gives you ZBLL, which, guess what, has hundreds of cases too!

With method 2, combining steps 2 and 3 is just full OLL, with only 58 cases (roughly 30-40 additional algs over the easy OLL cases).

Fine, so maybe you plan to pivot from method 1 to method 2. But now the VHLS algs you learnt become useless. Once you've learnt most of OLL, it's almost always better to do a 3-move insert into OLL than VHLS into corner-only OLL.


This is insanely bad. It's (much) worse than inserting the pair and doing 2-look OLL. Stop doing this.

can you send me a video of how to do it
im thinking of it maybe
oh wait i just found out i need to learn A FREAKING 46 algs!!
this is not good
it might be faster but its not worth it
im not going that far maybe i will do that when i learn CFOP.

 

[Username: Username:]

its only 8 cases im not learning the whole thing
and COLL has freaking 42 algs

Uh? what?

 

[xyzzy]

and COLL has freaking 42 algs

This is just a case of really unfortunate naming.

When I say "corner-only OLL", I meant the eight OLL cases with the cross already done (skip, sune, antisune, T, U, L, H, pi). COLL is a different thing altogether.

can you send me a video of how to do it

How to do what? The "method 2" I wrote?

Here are four examples, using only the non-dot OLL cases in the PDF file I linked before.

/* Scramble */
B2 L2 D2 F' D2 F D2 F' R2 D2 F R' F' D2 L2 R2 B2 U' R'

/* Solve */
U' R U R' U R U' R' // last slot
U2 R U R' U' R' F R F' // easy OLL
// Gc perm

// View at alg.cubing.net

/* Scramble */
D F2 R2 D B2 U R2 B2 R2 B2 D L' D F2 U F' L' U2 F

/* Solve */
F' U F R U2 R' // last slot
U F U R U' R' F' // EOLL
r U R' U' r' F R F' // corner OLL
// A perm

// View at alg.cubing.net

/* Scramble */
U2 L2 U' L2 R2 B2 R2 U' R2 D' F2 R' B R' U2 R2 B2 F2 D R2

/* Solve */
y' U' R' U R U' R' U' R // last slot
U' F U R U' R' F' // EOLL
l' U' L U l F' L' F // corner OLL
// Gc perm

// View at alg.cubing.net

/* Scramble */
U2 R U2 R' U2 R U2 R' U2 L' B' U' B U L F' U2 F

/* Solve */
R U' R' U2 R U' R' // last slot
U M' R' U' R U' R' U2 R U' M // easy OLL
// R perm

// View at alg.cubing.net

 

[Nir1213]

This is just a case of really unfortunate naming.

When I say "corner-only OLL", I meant the eight OLL cases with the cross already done (skip, sune, antisune, T, U, L, H, pi). COLL is a different thing altogether.

oh ok i see
i really need to learn my terms

How to do what? The "method 2" I wrote?

Here are four examples, using only the non-dot OLL cases in the PDF file I linked before.

/* Scramble */
B2 L2 D2 F' D2 F D2 F' R2 D2 F R' F' D2 L2 R2 B2 U' R'

/* Solve */
U' R U R' U R U' R' // last slot
U2 R U R' U' R' F R F' // easy OLL
// Gc perm

// View at alg.cubing.net

/* Scramble */
D F2 R2 D B2 U R2 B2 R2 B2 D L' D F2 U F' L' U2 F

/* Solve */
F' U F R U2 R' // last slot
U F U R U' R' F' // EOLL
r U R' U' r' F R F' // corner OLL
// A perm

// View at alg.cubing.net

/* Scramble */
U2 L2 U' L2 R2 B2 R2 U' R2 D' F2 R' B R' U2 R2 B2 F2 D R2

/* Solve */
y' U' R' U R U' R' U' R // last slot
U' F U R U' R' F' // EOLL
l' U' L U l F' L' F // corner OLL
// Gc perm

// View at alg.cubing.net

/* Scramble */
U2 R U2 R' U2 R U2 R' U2 L' B' U' B U L F' U2 F

/* Solve */
R U' R' U2 R U' R' // last slot
U M' R' U' R U' R' U2 R U' M // easy OLL
// R perm

// View at alg.cubing.net

so your saying that i do zbf2l then i solve the top side and then i do corners only oll to fix the corners and then epll to fix the edges?

 

[xyzzy]

I'm saying that you should forget about ZBF2L altogether and just learn proper 2-look OLL, and augment it with some easy 1-look OLL cases.

 

[Skewb_Cube]

oh ok i see
i really need to learn my terms

so your saying that i do zbf2l then i solve the top side and then i do corners only oll to fix the corners and then epll to fix the edges?

What people are saying is that you don't need to care about zbF2L because with the algs that you are using, is going to be pretty much the same as 2 Look OLL. And I agree with them, because this are things that you shouldn't be learning, you should be doing the simple things other people and me suggested you at the beginning. For example, I started 10 months ago, and I started by learning the basic stuff and now I'm sub-15 with the simple CFOP things, so you shouldn't be caring about those zbF2L, VHLS, etc.

And yes, I also suggested for a while those algs, but I just also got confused and I didn't think well, but PLEASE learn the basics and you are good to go.

 

[Nir1213]

What people are saying is that you don't need to care about zbF2L because with the algs that you are using, is going to be pretty much the same as 2 Look OLL. And I agree with them, because this are things that you shouldn't be learning, you should be doing the simple things other people and me suggested you at the beginning. For example, I started 10 months ago, and I started by learning the basic stuff and now I'm sub-15 with the simple CFOP things, so you shouldn't be caring about those zbF2L, VHLS, etc.

And yes, I also suggested for a while those algs, but I just also got confused and I didn't think well, but PLEASE learn the basics and you are good to go.

wow and i srsly thought @Kyle™ was giving me a shortcut to solving cross while doing f2l
anyway could i use those algs anyway or it just completely useless?

 

[CyoobietheCuber]

wow and i srsly thought @Kyle™ was giving me a shortcut to solving cross while doing f2l
anyway could i use those algs anyway or it just completely useless?

You can use it, it just won't help more than 2-look OLL.

 

[Nir1213]

just learned one 1 look oll cases its the dot case

 

[Spacey10]

just learned one 1 look oll cases its the dot case

Learn the two F R U R' U' F' and the F U R I'M R' F' cases to get the cross without using ZBF2L