Should WCA Bring Back Age Statistics?

[irontwig]

Ok, as long as it's not mandatory, as some people might not want to disclose their age for whatever reason.

 

[Rune]

Btw, the oldest man having a record on 3x3x3 is said to have been 90 years old at that time. Do you have to be 91 to beat that record?

 

[Logiqx]

Would the WCA consider sharing at least the birth year for competitors in their database?

I've been trying to determine the performances of the over-40's but it only shows a fraction of the older competitors.

I can't see year of birth presenting a threat to personal security - identify theft, etc.

 

[Lucas Garron]

Would the WCA consider sharing at least the birth year for competitors in their database?

It is literally not allowed. Competitors have competed under Regulations that guarantee this privacy. We can't release their birthdates without changing the Regulations to explicitly allow such a retroactive change – and that would be weird, irresponsible, and probably illegal.

I can't see year of birth presenting a threat to personal security - identify theft, etc.

Unfortunately, it *does* present a threat, regardless of whether you can see it.
PII usually has strong privacy restrictions (and name + birthdate are usually a *very* strong way to identify someone). This information is also sometimes used to protect information, e.g. as security question when you are locked out of an account.


However, as discussed elsewhere in this thread, Regulation 2d allows us to make this data available about competitors that opt in to sharing it. Jeremy Fleischman has implemented WCA user accounts, so we're one step closer to providing an option for this.

 

[Logiqx]

It is literally not allowed. Competitors have competed under Regulations that guarantee this privacy. We can't release their birthdates without changing the Regulations to explicitly allow such a retroactive change – and that would be irresponsible.

Thanks for clarifying. I had not spotted that in the regulations.

PII usually has strong privacy restrictions (and name + birthdate are usually a *very* strong way to identify someone). This information is also sometimes used to protect information, e.g. as security question when you are locked out of an account.

I'm pretty familiar with these topics due to the nature of my day job. I wasn't suggesting the actual birth date... just the year.

However, as discussed elsewhere in this thread, Regulation 2d allows us to make this data available if competitors opt in. Jeremy Fleischman has implemented WCA user accounts, so we're one step closer to providing a universal option for this.

That's a fair and responsible way to do it. It may also be worth considering whether the opt-in should provide different options (e.g. just year, year and month or full DOB).

Thanks for your response.

 

[okayama]

I still hope age statistics brought back. (or newly made, starting from 2016)

I've noticed that competitors can create a wca account currently, so the following idea may be an excellent approach.
Is there any way to make it real?

I think the simplest solution *if we had accounts on the WCA website* would be to make his a preference that can be selected during registration, with a specific and positively worded "do you allow us to publish your age for X, Y, and Z?" checkbox.

 

[Lucas Garron]

I still hope age statistics brought back. (or newly made, starting from 2016)

I've noticed that competitors can create a wca account currently, so the following idea may be an excellent approach.
Is there any way to make it real?

Indeed, now we can start asking competitors if they're okay with making their age public. Contact Jeremy Fleischman if you're interested.

 

[Matt11111]

Indeed, now we can start asking competitors if they're okay with making their age public. Contact Jeremy Fleischman if you're interested.

Sweet, I've always wanted to know where I rank among 13-year-olds.

 

[JustinTimeCuber]

Sweet, I've always wanted to know where I rank among 13-year-olds.

IM FAZTER DAN U AN IM TWELV U SUK LOL
(jk of course )

I think this would be an interesting thing to add. I think it makes the most sense to simply skip places for people who don't opt in, so for instance if it were going to be added and I kept reloading the page until it was added and immediately hit opt in before anyone else and then went to the page for rankings of 12 year olds, I wouldn't appear at place number 1, I would appear at place number n (Hopefully n < 500, there can't be that many people my age faster than me)

 

[YouCubing]

IM FAZTER DAN U AN IM TWELV U SUK LOL
(jk of course )

I think this would be an interesting thing to add. I think it makes the most sense to simply skip places for people who don't opt in, so for instance if it were going to be added and I kept reloading the page until it was added and immediately hit opt in before anyone else and then went to the page for rankings of 12 year olds, I wouldn't appear at place number 1, I would appear at place number n (Hopefully n < 500, there can't be that many people my age faster than me)

I'm twelve and I'm solwer than you so I win11!!!1!!
a higher number is better right? xD jk
Yay for bumping old threads welp this needs to happen, nuff said

 

[Dene]

Indeed, now we can start asking competitors if they're okay with making their age public. Contact Jeremy Fleischman if you're interested.

Surely parental consent would be essential for any minor.

 

[mark49152]

Surely parental consent would be essential for any minor.

Perhaps the system should not even accept ages under a certain threshold. Are age stats interesting or meaningful for minors anyway? Generally it's at older ages where age starts to affect performance and stats for age brackets become interesting.

Also, I see no reason that actual birth years need be disclosed. The years would be used for including or excluding results in tables for age brackets. Sure it might be possible to analyse results and calculate someone's birth year, but that's different to explicitly listing it in an output.

 

[shadowslice e]

I think that it would just be a bit of fun for the younger/older cubers so I think that age statistics in general should be collected with consent but not that it is compulsory.

 

[Laura O]

Surely parental consent would be essential for any minor.

Furthermore, these statistics won't be convincing.
I don't know the exact numbers, but only the minority of competitors has a website account and there is no reason for non-active competitors to create one. So a lot of past results and records will be missing.

 

[Matt11111]

I'm twelve and I'm solwer than you so I win11!!!1!!
a higher number is better right? xD jk
Yay for bumping old threads welp this needs to happen, nuff said

#slowcubing

 

[biscuit]

Furthermore, these statistics won't be convincing.
I don't know the exact numbers, but only the minority of competitors has a website account and there is no reason for non-active competitors to create one. So a lot of past results and records will be missing.

They can include the results of those without accounts, and not display any personal information and only show times/position so that results aren't skewed.

 

[Dene]

They can include the results of those without accounts, and not display any personal information and only show times/position so that results aren't skewed.

You could still work out someones birthdate, at least roughly, and possibly exactly.

 

[biscuit]

You could still work out someones birthdate, at least roughly, and possibly exactly.

Then don't include times. Just say there are x number of people better than this person. Those who opt in have their results shown, but those who don't, don't

 

[shadowslice e]

You could still work out someones birthdate, at least roughly, and possibly exactly.

Well, in Britain with swimming (specifically the ASA), they have all the results and DOBs shown when you sign up but you can opt out. It doesn't seem to have caused too many problems really.

 

[Dene]

Then don't include times. Just say there are x number of people better than this person. Those who opt in have their results shown, but those who don't, don't

I don't understand... the problem is when someone has their birthday and moves into a different category, not the times they have. (at least, this is one of the problems).

Well, in Britain with swimming (specifically the ASA), they have all the results and DOBs shown when you sign up but you can opt out. It doesn't seem to have caused too many problems really.

Sure maybe they can do it in Britain no problem. But what about a 20y/o in USA, technically a minor? What about people in Pakistan? Have you got any idea what the laws are for minors there? Do you want to be the person to look up the laws in every country we compete in to find out if we can disclose the age of minors, and if so, what procedures are necessary (e.g. parental consent)?