Should WCA introduce 8x8? Should they bring back feet solving? etc...

[Thom S.]

and expecting us to use them regularly haha

There are currently at least 3 people(some in this forum) that I know of that enjoy 8+ more than 4-7

 

[Jorian Meeuse]

There are currently at least 3 people(some in this forum) that I know of that enjoy 8+ more than 4-7

And at least a few thousand (some in this forum) that I don't all know of that don't enjoy 8+ more than 4-7

 

[OldSwiss]

Feet: No, due to hygienical issues and the need of different solving stations.

8x8: No, because it's not much different to 6x6 and 7x7

 

[Thom S.]

And at least a few thousand (some in this forum) that I don't all know of that don't enjoy 8+ more than 4-7

My post answered the comment doubting there are people maining 8+ (@One Wheel 's the only one I know of by heart that does) by saying there are.

There is still no sensible reason to add 8x8. But there IS a reason to manufacture magnetised 8-11s.

 

[Ordway Persyn]

Also, it was very unhygienic. Did you know that something like 780,000 bacteria per square inch on your foot.

I'd bet there is far more bacteria on peoples hands.

 

[White KB]

Feet: No, due to hygienical issues and the need of different solving stations.

8x8: No, because it's not much different to 6x6 and 7x7

Feet needs to be added back but with different safety measures. To clarify, people are still doing Feet solving through Extra Events (I even got the privilege of doing it last year), but it is not official even if it's done in a competition and overseen by delegates, scramblers, runners, and judges, as is the case with Extra Events.

I will say though: the site owner of Extra Events has said the site is closed until the WCA allows competitions in Russia again. Since the WCA is following a guideline set forth by the International Olympic Committee Executive Board to disallow competitions in Russia and Belarus until the conflict in Ukraine is over, it doesn't look like this is going away anytime soon.

Regarding this, it is important to note that it's the Russians themselves -- ordinary civilians -- who are getting hurt by these political and economical sanctions so it's pretty unfair to apply these to citizens who can't even properly appeal to their government for help. That's not the main point here and I don't like diving too deep into politics though; anyway...

Feet, if extra sanitization were required for scrambling and solving (anyone who is in direct contact with the cube), could be a wonderful re-addition to the WCA. 8x8 would likely take too long to scramble and solve, and we can already see with 7x7 that this event takes a while to solve, hence the 3 solves used in 6x6 and 7x7 means because there's literally not enough time for two more solves. They have been the largest events in the WCA since 2009 when they were added, and I think it should stay that way.

 

[eyeoh]

"Should x/y/z be an event?" seems to be quite a frequently asked question, both on the WCA forum and elsewhere (here?). I think what a lot of people don't realise when they ask questions like these is that WCA competitions take a lot of effort to both organise and run, and that scheduling is tight.

Any "new" event means that fewer competitors will have a chance of making it through to rounds 2 and beyond for their pet main event (which is usually 333 or 222, but in my case, it's 3bld and OH).

So no, I'm against adding new events just for the sake of adding events (just like I am against the concept of coming up with new regulations just for the sake of brainstorming up new regulations). Create more hours in a competition day and allow more competitors through to round 2 and 3, even if it's for events I don't compete in such as pyraminx and skewb.

As far as unofficial events go however, in my view, organisers/delegates can do whatever they want since they're the ones putting the work in.

 

[Mrzix]

They should add solving overlubed 21x21 while having to cram 2939483828 chicken nuggets in your mouth

 

[One Wheel]

My post answered the comment doubting there are people maining 8+ (@One Wheel 's the only one I know of by heart that does) by saying there are.

I solve 8x8 some, and it's a fun puzzle, but I wouldn't say it's my main event if that's what you're trying to say. My favorite event to practice is 6x6, my favorite event to compete is Feet. 8x8 would probably not be a good addition to the list of WCA events.

The issue of hygiene and Feet is overhyped. I would support an exception to 1e2 for somebody who thinks feet are gross, and there should be an explicit allowance for judges to require that competitors wash their feet before competing if the judge deems it necessary (the same should go for hands in other events). With those two caveats any argument against the inclusion of Feet in the WCA official events list is disingenuous and in direct violation of the mission statement of the organization.

 

[Thom S.]

if that's what you're trying to say.

Not directly, but I destinctively remember you saying how much you enjoy 9x9 from time to time.

 

[One Wheel]

Not directly, but I destinctively remember you saying how much you enjoy 9x9 from time to time.

I don't remember exactly what I said. I do enjoy large puzzles, although TBH I think I've only solved 10x10 once or twice, and I don't solve 8x8 much. I don't think I've ever actually solved a 9x9.

 

[FenTheGoat]

I'd bet there is far more bacteria on peoples hands.

Nope. According to my googling, there are about 3,200 on your hands and 1,560,000 on your feet (780,000 per foot). (I hope I did that math right)

Edit: I didn’t

 

[One Wheel]

Nope. According to my googling, there are about 3,200 on your hands and 1,560,000 on your feet (780,000 per foot). (I hope I did that math right)

I can virtually guarantee you didn't. 3,200 is ridiculously low.

 

[arbivara]

Also, it was very unhygienic. Did you know that something like 780,000 bacteria per square inch on your foot.

Then came in the COVID-19 and all puzzles are unhygienic. So let's make every event unofficial except, maybe, FM

 

[FenTheGoat]

Yep, I did

I can virtually guarantee you didn't. 3,200 is ridiculously low.

It’s 3,200 different bacteria, your hands can hold a few million. But I also realized that 780,000 is per square inch so…

 

[Ordway Persyn]

Nope. According to my googling, there are about 3,200 on your hands and 1,560,000 on your feet (780,000 per foot). (I hope I did that math right)

I googled too and found varying results, though both hands and feet are dirtier than most of your body. this also makes no distinction between Harmful, Neutral and Benefical Bacteria. Feet seem to be better places for bacteria to grow but hands likely have more random stuff on them. Not to mention peoples cubes probably have a lot of bacteria.

The fact is that bacteria is going to be transmitted between people. Most people don't wash their hand nearly as much as they should, or at all. The idea we can live in a sterile world with no germs is lunacy. Unless there was a WCA reg stating competitors must wash their hands before competing (which would be near impossible to enforce) than having that requirement for feet would be unfair.

The only legit reason for not having feet was the trouble of setting up the stations on the floor and moving them afterward. and that honestly wasn't a major deal.

Also on 8x8: while I like 8x8 and i'd be fine if it was an event, I don't think there is much good reason for it compared to other potential events.
Master Kilo or Gigaminx would be better huge puzzles in comparison.

 

[One Wheel]

Unless there was a WCA reg stating competitors must wash their hands before competing (which would be near impossible to enforce) than having that requirement for feet would be unfair.

If somebody came up to a solving station to compete and their hands were dripping with blood or raw sewage they should be required to wash their hands before competing (and almost certainly would be, even in the absence of a rule). The same should be true for feet, and because people often may pay less attention to foot hygiene than hand hygiene it seems reasonable to make it explicit.

Master Kilo or Gigaminx would be better huge puzzles in comparison.

Gigaminx takes a long time to scramble. Since there is no parity there is very little chance involved in the solve, it would be reasonable to include it as an official event with only a single solve, but only if there was a reliable automated mechanical scrambler available.

 

[Ordway Persyn]

If somebody came up to a solving station to compete and their hands were dripping with blood or raw sewage they should be required to wash their hands before competing (and almost certainly would be, even in the absence of a rule). The same should be true for feet, and because people often may pay less attention to foot hygiene than hand hygiene it seems reasonable to make it explicit.

Gigaminx takes a long time to scramble. Since there is no parity there is very little chance involved in the solve, it would be reasonable to include it as an official event with only a single solve, but only if there was a reliable automated mechanical scrambler available.

#1: Fair point, though i still think the hygiene argument for feet is overrated.

#2: thats sort of why master kilo would be better, they are both more unique than 8x8 though. The size of all of them are generally why smaller puzzles get more serous attention for inclusion.

 

[1x1 wr holder!]

Okay... i get it. introducing feet solving 8x8 isn't a good idea.

 

[turtwig]

Okay... i get it. introducing feet solving 8x8 isn't a good idea.

This might be the only 8x8 with feet solve ever: