[Help Thread] ZZ and ZB Discussion

[Saransh Grover]

So, I prepared three solves I would like you guys to critique
Anything will be appreciated

Spoiler: Solve 1

x' B L' R' (U' D) B' U L2 D' // EoLine
U R' U R' L' U L2 // FL 1x2x2 Block
R' U2 R U' R' U R // BR 1x2x2 Block
L' U' L U L' U2 L U' L' // Left Block
U' (R U R' U') R U R' // RB
U F' (r U R' U') r' F R // OLL
R' U' R (U D') R2 U R' U R U' R U' R2 D // PLL

Spoiler: Solve 2

x' D B D' U' R' F R' D // EoLine
U2 M F2 M' //FR 1x2x2 Block
U' L' U' x' M' U2 L U2 L2 // LB 1x2x2 Block
U R U' R' U' R // Right Block
U2 L' U' L U L' U' L // Left Block
U2 F' (r U R' U') r' F R // OLL
R U R' y' R2 u' (R U' R' U R') u R2 U // PLL

Spoiler: Solve 3

x' y2 L' (U' D) F' L D' // EOLine
U2 R' U2 R U' R' U R // RF 1x2x2 Block
U' R' U L2 U' R //LF 1x2x2 Block
U L' U2 L U2 R // Right Block
U' L' U2 LU L' // Left Block
U F (U R U' R') U (R U2 R' U') R U R' F' // COLL
U' M2 U M U2 M' U M2 U // PLL

Your EO Line seems not so efficient. You should see more walkthrough solves online and try to do it in both a efficient as well as a fingertricky way.

For the first one , you could've done x' D B F' U' F L D' to make EO
Also , in the second scramble , the LB block has a rotation which I believe should not happen at all in zz except the last block at times. You could've solved the same by doing : U' R' U L' U L U2 L2 or even do other blocks.

I would say do EO BLD and see walkthrough solves. All the best.

 

[Isaac VM]

Your EO Line seems not so efficient. You should see more walkthrough solves online and try to do it in both a efficient as well as a fingertricky way.

For the first one , you could've done x' D B F' U' F L D' to make EO
Also , in the second scramble , the LB block has a rotation which I believe should not happen at all in zz except the last block at times. You could've solved the same by doing : U' R' U L' U L U2 L2 or even do other blocks.

I would say do EO BLD and see walkthrough solves. All the best.

Thanks, I'll work on my EOLine to make it fingertricky and efficient.

 

[pinser]

So, I prepared three solves I would like you guys to critique
Anything will be appreciated

Spoiler: Solve 1

x' B L' R' (U' D) B' U L2 D' // EoLine
U R' U R' L' U L2 // FL 1x2x2 Block
R' U2 R U' R' U R // BR 1x2x2 Block
L' U' L U L' U2 L U' L' // Left Block
U' (R U R' U') R U R' // RB
U F' (r U R' U') r' F R // OLL
R' U' R (U D') R2 U R' U R U' R U' R2 D // PLL

Spoiler: Solve 2

x' D B D' U' R' F R' D // EoLine
U2 M F2 M' //FR 1x2x2 Block
U' L' U' x' M' U2 L U2 L2 // LB 1x2x2 Block
U R U' R' U' R // Right Block
U2 L' U' L U L' U' L // Left Block
U2 F' (r U R' U') r' F R // OLL
R U R' y' R2 u' (R U' R' U R') u R2 U // PLL

Spoiler: Solve 3

x' y2 L' (U' D) F' L D' // EOLine
U2 R' U2 R U' R' U R // RF 1x2x2 Block
U' R' U L2 U' R //LF 1x2x2 Block
U L' U2 L U2 R // Right Block
U' L' U2 LU L' // Left Block
U F (U R U' R') U (R U2 R' U') R U R' F' // COLL
U' M2 U M U2 M' U M2 U // PLL

Would help if you posted scrambles

Check out the ZZ example solve thread and jarcs

+lucky solve
F2 U R2 U L2 F2 D2 L2 D U2 R B' F2 D B' R' U2 F' D' U2 R
B R' U2 D F L R D' //EOLine (8)
U' R' L2 U L R' U R2 L' U' L U L' //F2L (13)
U2 M2 U' M' U2 M U' M2 U //EPLL (9)
Total = 30 Moves lol
Had a bunch of pauses but got a 12.53

 

[Isaac VM]

Would help if you posted scrambles

Check out the ZZ example solve thread and jarcs

Thanks, I forgot to include the scrambles, I already edited the post, I will work with jarcs, it's a great tool for cubing, thanks! :3

That solve you posted was sick!

 

[pinser]

Hey guys I'm just curious but what do you average and what LL variant do you use?
I use COLL EPLL and average 16ishy

 

[shadowslice e]

Hey guys I'm just curious but what do you average and what LL variant do you use?
I use COLL EPLL and average 16ishy

I'm somewhere in the region of 16-18 with ZZ it isn't my main. For LL i try to do COLL->EPLL but i don't always know the COLI will therefore sometimes do OCLL->PLL if i know the PLL (which i don't always). Easy WV isn't always out of the question though.

 

[PurpleBanana]

Hey guys I'm just curious but what do you average and what LL variant do you use?
I use COLL EPLL and average 16ishy

I use CFOP with OLL+PLL and I average 22 because my F2L is a complete dumpster fire.

 

[sub20oneday]

non matching blocks?
y color neutral?
whats a good way to finger trick R2 U R U R' U' R' U' R' U R'
i can do it fast but to many regrips for a real solve
z perm for oh?
should i use sune/antisune colls?
what after coll

 

[OLLiver]

non matching blocks?
....
what after coll

ZBLL

 

[AlphaSheep]

non matching blocks?

NMLL is ok in slow solves, but not useful for a speedsolve. It adds an extra look to the last layer.

y color neutral?

The hard part is getting used to recognising bad edges in a different orientation. Counting bad edges in each orientation should only take a second or two each once you're used to it. I keep meaning to take that step, but I like my orientation.

whats a good way to finger trick R2 U R U R' U' R' U' R' U R'
i can do it fast but to many regrips for a real solve

Flick the Rs. Don't wrist turn.

z perm for oh

R' U' R2 U R U R' U' R U R U' R U' R'

should i use sune/antisune colls?

I don't because I find sune+pll fast enough, but I do think it's worth it to know how to spot Niklas.

what after coll

Phasing+ZZLL is a nice stepping stone to full ZBLL.

 

[pinser]

non matching blocks? Theoretically, yes. Practically, no.
y color neutral? I'm not color neutral at all. Yep, not even x2 y2. I chose to do so cuz every EOline can be solved in under 7 moves (iirc), so not much advantage being y color neutral. But that's just me and I'm no expert.
whats a good way to finger trick R2 U R U R' U' R' U' R' U R' M2 U' M U2 M' U' M2
z perm for oh? U2 R U R' U R' U' R' U R U' R' U' R2 U R
should i use sune/antisune colls? No, OCLL PLL is faster than COLL EPLL.
what after coll Um I think it's called practice . ZZLL -> ZBLL if you're brave, or ZZ-CT.

And yeah I also agree with OLLiver and AlphaSheep

 

[GenTheSnail]

~22 sec ZZ solver (add me to the list haha). I don't do full EOLine, just track edges during EO and put them in after, so yeah, just some back round.
Anyway, help needed:
10 bad edges, good ones in the FR and BL position, how would I solve that?
off the top of my head I would do:
(F' B) (R' L) (F L' D' L' B)
but that's really long, inefficient and not very fingertrick friendly.
Any suggestions?

 

[pinser]

~22 sec ZZ solver (add me to the list haha). I don't do full EOLine, just track edges during EO and put them in after, so yeah, just some back round.
Anyway, help needed:
10 bad edges, good ones in the FR and BL position, how would I solve that?
off the top of my head I would do:
(F' B) (R' L) (F L' D' L' B)
but that's really long, inefficient and not very fingertrick friendly.
Any suggestions?

I usually do some version of 4 + 4 + 2 depending on where the line edges are.
4 + 3 + 4 works too.

 

[shadowslice e]

~22 sec ZZ solver (add me to the list haha). I don't do full EOLine, just track edges during EO and put them in after, so yeah, just some back round.
Anyway, help needed:
10 bad edges, good ones in the FR and BL position, how would I solve that?
off the top of my head I would do:
(F' B) (R' L) (F L' D' L' B)
but that's really long, inefficient and not very fingertrick friendly.
Any suggestions?

I've done something like M U M' 3+3 before

 

[AlphaSheep]

~22 sec ZZ solver (add me to the list haha). I don't do full EOLine, just track edges during EO and put them in after, so yeah, just some back round.
Anyway, help needed:
10 bad edges, good ones in the FR and BL position, how would I solve that?
off the top of my head I would do:
(F' B) (R' L) (F L' D' L' B)
but that's really long, inefficient and not very fingertrick friendly.
Any suggestions?

I struggle with 10 edges, but my general strategy is this:

1. Get 3 on an F or B face and reduce to 8 bad edges
2. Get 4 edges on an the other F or B face, if possible bringing a line edge with (if it is bad), and pick the direction of F or B to get the line edge separated from the other one.
3. Get the remaining 4 edges on either F or B and orient, picking the direction to get line edges as close to solved as possible.
4. Fix the line edges.

It's not always fingertricky but it's typically only a move or two more than optimal.

For the case you've given, I'd do something like this:
B // Reduce to 8 edges
D R' // Get 4 edges on F
F' // Orient 4, place a line edge on D
r' U' r // Orient 4 more, place other line edge opposite the first. The last r could be replaced by an x, but the r is easier in a speedsolve (no regrip).
D2 // Finish line

 

[JanW]

~22 sec ZZ solver (add me to the list haha). I don't do full EOLine, just track edges during EO and put them in after, so yeah, just some back round.
Anyway, help needed:
10 bad edges, good ones in the FR and BL position, how would I solve that?
off the top of my head I would do:
(F' B) (R' L) (F L' D' L' B)
but that's really long, inefficient and not very fingertrick friendly.
Any suggestions?

I'm still very new to ZZ. My general approach to 10 edges so far has been to place the 2 good edges on the middle layer (not F or B), rotate both F and B to reduce to 2 bad edges, then fix the last 2. This way, it's very easy to keep track of which edges still need flipping and I can use more inspection time to plan the two line edges.

In your example, since none of the good edges are on the bottom or top layer, I'd probably start with a M' and flip 8 edges on U and D face. For example:

M' U D r' F U F'
(U and D moves after initial M' can go in any direction, depending on where your line edges are)

 

[JanW]

ZZ F2L, when the corner piece is solved and edge piece is in the U layer, how do you solve this at the four different corners? I've found R' U' R' U' R' U R U R to work well for front right corner pair, but that alg is a bit awkward for other corners.

 

[Isaac VM]

ZZ F2L, when the corner piece is solved and edge piece is in the U layer, how do you solve this at the four different corners? I've found R' U' R' U' R' U R U R to work well for front right corner pair, but that alg is a bit awkward for other corners.

For the Right front slot I use: Edge in UB place F' (R U R' U') R' F R
For the Right back slot I use: Edge in UR Place (R' U2 R) U' (R' U2 R) U2 (R' U R)
For the Left front sot I use: Edge in UL place (L' U2 L) U' (L' U2 L) U2 (L' U L)
For the Left back slot I use:Edge in UL place (L U2 L') U (L U2 L') U2 (L U' L')

I know they are not move efficient (except for the first one) but they're fingertricky to me

 

[TDM]

ZZ F2L, when the corner piece is solved and edge piece is in the U layer, how do you solve this at the four different corners? I've found R' U' R' U' R' U R U R to work well for front right corner pair, but that alg is a bit awkward for other corners.

Use keyhole if possible, but if not (i.e. last slot):

FR: F' R U R' U' R' F R
BR: R' U R' D' R U R' D R U' R
FL: r U r' U' r' F r F'
BL: L U2 L' U L U L' U2 L U' L'

 

[Isaac VM]

BR: R' U R' D' R U R' D R U' R
FL: r U r' U' r' F r F'

I am going to start practicing them.