[Help Thread] ZZ and ZB Discussion

[PurpleBanana]

I can load that page fine.

 

[Isaac VM]

Well I guess it's only me, thanks!

I'll try later!

 

[sub20oneday]

i average 21-30 my splits are
eoline 4-6
f2l 12-16
lasl layer 5-9(depending on if i get a coll or a g perm)
im guessing eoline but what should i improve on

for oh i average 35-45
eoline 6-8
f2l 20-30
last layer 10-20
for oh i think just drill algs but what else could i do

 

[pinser]

also color neutral im thinking of x2 y2 as thats pretty easy how hard is full y and full x

It isn't that hard, but I feel that it isn't worth it (see below).

x2 y2 with ZZ isn't that good imo. That gives you 4 starting orientations, but only 2 EO-lines (cuz same 2 edges), and only 1 EO (Y2 wouldn't give a different EO, neither would X2). I would say full y is the best. Then you have 2 different EOs, 2 different lines, and it's not very hard because blue to green is just a different execution angle and same with red to orange (so in effect you only need to learn 1 new colour).

I'm no expert, but I feel that zz has a lot of intricacies that color neutrality makes you lose.

i average 21-30 my splits are
eoline 4-6
f2l 12-16
lasl layer 5-9(depending on if i get a coll or a g perm)
im guessing eoline but what should i improve on

for oh i average 35-45
eoline 6-8
f2l 20-30
last layer 10-20
for oh i think just drill algs but what else could i do

Practice.

+yay, 15.55 official Ao5 ZZ

 

[shadowslice e]

So... Does anyone do (know anyone who does) EoLOL?

 

[TDM]

So... Does anyone do (know anyone who does) EoLOL?

What's EoLOL? Do you mean ZZ-LOL? If so then no, I don't know anyone.

 

[shadowslice e]

What's EoLOL? Do you mean ZZ-LOL? If so then no, I don't know anyone.

Yeah ZZ-LOL, EoLOL same thing. Just wondering if anyone actually does it at all.

 

[AlphaSheep]

Yeah ZZ-LOL, EoLOL same thing. Just wondering if anyone actually does it at all.

Well, EOLol is really the first step of ZZ-Lol.

I used ZZ-Lol for OH for a couple of months toward the end of last year because I prefer using RUD to RUL. I switched back to standard EOLine on D because I was struggling with lookahead with ZZ-Lol.

I don't know what steps other people use, but I was doing it like in this example solve.

 

[TDM]

I don't know what steps other people use, but I was doing it like in this example solve.

I've considered solving like that in the past, and although it would make lookahead easier, it does mean you have to solve blocks in a fixed order, meaning you sometimes can't take advantage of easy blocks you otherwise could use. It's more restricting, which takes away one of the advantages of using ZZ.

 

[Isaac VM]

I have a few questions, currently I am starting to predict where my line edges will end after EO but I am having trouble memorizing the EO+Line solution, I think my EOLine is slowing me down (5-8s), ZZF2L (12-16s), LL (4-7s).

Do you have any tips?
What is your thought process?
Do you have any finger tricks with M moves or r l moves for a particular execution?

Thanks!

 

[AlphaSheep]

I have a few questions, currently I am starting to predict where my line edges will end after EO but I am having trouble memorizing the EO+Line solution, I think my EOLine is slowing me down (5-8s), ZZF2L (12-16s), LL (4-7s).

Do you have any tips?
What is your thought process?
Do you have any finger tricks with M moves or r l moves for a particular execution?

Thanks!

I just choose the direction of F, F', B and B' so that my line edges will be on opposite faces after EO. Then I check where they are during the last couple of moves of EO. My EOline is typically around 3 seconds doing this.

 

[Isaac VM]

I just choose the direction of F, F', B and B' so that my line edges will be on opposite faces after EO. Then I check where they are during the last couple of moves of EO. My EOline is typically around 3 seconds doing this.

Thanks for the tip.
So you don't predict the exact position, just the faces where they will be and look ahead during EO. Right?

I am going to try this, thanks again!

 

[gyroninja]

Thanks for the tip.
So you don't predict the exact position, just the faces where they will be and look ahead during EO. Right?

I am going to try this, thanks again!

Here's a good tip. There is usually a line edge with bad eo (even better chance if you are x2 neutral). Since you have to track it to do eo anyway it should be really easy to predict where it will be. Either watch the other line edge while solving eo or trace where the other edge will be.

 

[4Chan]

My tip is:

Don't be afraid to try unconventional things and do things beyond your comfort zone.
It's a great way to learn and improve.

Track 8/10/12 bad +line edges? Can't do it?
WRONG, you can do it.

 

[Isaac VM]

Here's a good tip. There is usually a line edge with bad eo (even better chance if you are x2 neutral). Since you have to track it to do eo anyway it should be really easy to predict where it will be. Either watch the other line edge while solving eo or trace where the other edge will be.

That's a good tip, didn't think about it, I am going to work on it, thanks!

My tip is:

Don't be afraid to try unconventional things and do things beyond your comfort zone.
It's a great way to learn and improve.

Track 8/10/12 bad +line edges? Can't do it?
WRONG, you can do it.

Yeah, you are right, in the end is just practice and learning new things, I remember the first time I watched a ZZ tutorial and I was like this is not easy, 7 months later I re-watched the tutorial and it seemed nice to me.

Right now, ZZ opened my mind in cubing, I just love it and I have learned a lot through it.

 

[shadowslice e]

One other tip: you can also use M/M' and wide moves for eo in some cases as well.

 

[Isaac VM]

One other tip: you can also use M/M' and wide moves for eo in some cases as well.

Yes, I am trying to adapt Roux EO in some cases so I can solve EOLine in a finger tricky way.

 

[Isaac VM]

So, I prepared three solves I would like you guys to critique
Anything will be appreciated

Spoiler: Solve 1

/* Scramble */
D2 F U2 F2 U2 B2 U2 R2 B' L2 F' R' B' D F2 R U2 R B D R2

/* Solve */
x' B L' R' (U' D) B' U L2 D' // EoLine
U R' U R' L' U L2 // FL 1x2x2 Block
R' U2 R U' R' U R // BR 1x2x2 Block
L' U' L U L' U2 L U' L' // Left Block
U' (R U R' U') R U R' // RB
U F' (r U R' U') r' F R // OLL
R' U' R (U D') R2 U R' U R U' R U' R2 D // PLL

// View at alg.cubing.net
https://alg.cubing.net/?setup=D2_F_...2_U_R-_U_R_U-_R_U-_R2_D_//_PLL &view=playback

Spoiler: Solve 2

/* Scramble */
D2 R2 F' D2 B2 R2 U2 R2 F L2 D2 L U' R2 F' L' D' L' U F

/* Solve */
x' D B D' U' R' F R' D // EoLine
U2 M F2 M' //FR 1x2x2 Block
U' L' U' x' M' U2 L U2 L2 // LB 1x2x2 Block
U R U' R' U' R // Right Block
U2 L' U' L U L' U' L // Left Block
U2 F' (r U R' U') r' F R // OLL
R U R' y' R2 u' (R U' R' U R') u R2 U // PLL


// View at alg.cubing.net

https://alg.cubing.net/?setup=D2_R2...-_(R_U-_R-_U_R-)_u_R2_U_//_PLL &view=playback

Spoiler: Solve 3

/* Scramble */
U2 F2 D' F2 L2 D' U L2 B2 L2 F2 R' B' L2 R' F U' F2 U B' L2

/* Solve */
x' y2 L' (U' D) F' L D' // EOLine
U2 R' U2 R U' R' U R // RF 1x2x2 Block
U' R' U L2 U' R //LF 1x2x2 Block
U L' U2 L U2 R // Right Block
U' L' U2 LU L' // Left Block
U F (U R U' R') U (R U2 R' U') R U R' F' // COLL
U' M2 U M U2 M' U M2 U // PLL


// View at alg.cubing.net

 

[gyroninja]

You should have done a y2 before doing eoline on the first solve. If you are doing a B move only do pone if it's the first out second move. You want the majority to be on F though.

 

[Isaac VM]

I'll take that into account, thanks.