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[Help Thread] ZZ and ZB Discussion

Matt S

Member
Joined
May 24, 2010
Messages
84
Nice tips on the F2L look-ahead. I'm going to try putting a 2x2 block in the back by default next time I solve. That's a cool idea, even though it's the first one that's hardest to find.

Getting better at EOLine is really helping my transition. It will be great when I'm able to almost always fully plan the full move sequence during inspection. I can still only do that about a third of the time, but it's awesome when it happen.

I have a couple ZZF2L execution tips that I think are worth sharing (especially for others coming from a CFOP background):

1) Discover and learn to recognize nice patterns for forming 1x2x2 blocks. When you first start there will be times when you're just trying to make a corner edge pair and you'll make a happy discovery that the second edge "magically" made its way to the right spot. When this happens, stop, undo your moves, and take a look at the three piece pattern that caused this happy accident. Now you'll be able to recognize and eventually work to form these nice three piece patterns, which are often much easier and faster than forming the pair and then positioning the second edge in sequence.

One position that I've come to love early in the F2L is the "broken corner" position. This is the position where the D-sticker of the corner faces up and the side sticker matches the adjacent edge (the one that every new CFOPer hates until he learns an alg for it). You're probably familiar with the R2 U2 R' U' R U' R2 alg used to solve it. It's extremely useful to know the position after the initial R2 U2 (perform R2' U R' U R on a solved cube), because it's very easy to recognize get directly into this position early in the F2L. Then it's just five moves to go from a "bad" situation (mis-formed pair + edge on wrong side) to a solved and positioned 1x2x2 block.

Also learn to recognize it with the edges switched (generated by R' U R' U R).

2) Similar to #1, also backtrack when you have a case where making the pair puts the second edge in an especially bad spot, so you can recognize and avoid this. Sometimes you'll find that doing just one move before forming the pair will turn a bad situation into a very nice one.

3) Use of free "slots" is important in CFOP, but it's even more important in ZZ because a) it gets back some of the lost flexibility from having F and B fixed, and b) early on you have a free slice rather than just a slot, so it's even more "free".

3) Learn and become comfortable with the block breaking algs that you didn't really need in CFOP because of the ability to use F and B. This is probably obvious, but I went weeks using cludgy tricks to avoid block breaking, which wasn't worth it.
 
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Innocence

Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Messages
567
Location
Australia, mate.
Koreancuber, how many colls have you done so far? I don't mind if you're a little ahead.

Guys, CN with ZZ is really not as hard as it may seem. I already have my CN inspection down to 20 with a really rough inspection, but I only started trying yesterday. I have some tricks, watch this space.
 

abctoshiro

Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
162
[abc]toshiro;403955 said:
...but the rest of the f2l isn't. it's hard to look ahead in here...
Tips for ZZF2L Lookahead:

* Partially hidden edges - learn to identify them through elimination
* Partially hidden corners - ensure you can 'see' 6/8 corners at all times. See: Coracle
* EOLine-F2L transition - basically concentrate on F2L during EOLine - don't 'check' your line edges
* Flexibility - On 1x2x2 blocks be willing to use either a D-face or an E-slice edge for the initial 1x1x2
* No looking at B/D - rotations are bad, use R/L moves to find pieces if you need to
* Completed 1x2x2's - lookahead becomes much easier if the initial 1x2x2's occupy the back slot. If an initial 1x2x2 belongs in the front, temporarily placing it at the back (using R' or L) will allow more edges to be visible.
oh...thanks. nice tips. i can do my eoline in 3-5 seconds..but i average 40 with zz. i'm really having trouble with my f2l.. (but i should stop bickering 'bout meh f2l and start practicing!)
 

nitay6669

Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2010
Messages
72
Location
haifa, israel
WCA
2010DUEK01
i can easily plan eo but only half of the time a can plan the line and eo
so my eoline is between 3-7 secs and im averaging 27 with ZZ
but when i get nervous my PLL is like 5 secs
 

Innocence

Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Messages
567
Location
Australia, mate.
lol, okay, I'll start monday also. I suck at algs though. let's make video of all the coll subsets when we're done
Ok, although that would be so easy to cheat at. But don't worry, I won't :p

I should really put things on youtube, sadly it'll probably be my first video.

@Gears: Thanks for the info. Cmll users are welcome here, but they're definitely not awesome here.

ZZ user: "O hai I herd you leik CMLL so I accidentally the whole cube over."
 

jms_gears1

Premium Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2009
Messages
1,303
WCA
2009MAUP01
YouTube
azureriot
lol, okay, I'll start monday also. I suck at algs though. let's make video of all the coll subsets when we're done
Ok, although that would be so easy to cheat at. But don't worry, I won't :p

I should really put things on youtube, sadly it'll probably be my first video.

@Gears: Thanks for the info. Cmll users are welcome here, but they're definitely not awesome here.

ZZ user: "O hai I herd you leik CMLL so I accidentally the whole cube over."
You do realize that learning CMLL is learning COLL (mostly)
 

Innocence

Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Messages
567
Location
Australia, mate.
lol, okay, I'll start monday also. I suck at algs though. let's make video of all the coll subsets when we're done
Ok, although that would be so easy to cheat at. But don't worry, I won't :p

I should really put things on youtube, sadly it'll probably be my first video.

@Gears: Thanks for the info. Cmll users are welcome here, but they're definitely not awesome here.

ZZ user: "O hai I herd you leik CMLL so I accidentally the whole cube over."
You do realize that learning CMLL is learning COLL (mostly)
Ofcourse. *Mostly*
 

StachuK1992

statue
Joined
Jul 24, 2008
Messages
3,812
Location
West Chester, PA
WCA
2008KORI02
YouTube
StachuK1992
Is the list on the first post meant for only people who plan to use ZZ+ZB, or just ZZ or ZB?

If the latter, sign me up. I've been using ZZ for a few weeks now, and have been learning CLS. (if you haven't noticed my CLS sheets recently :p) I plan to be "decent" at MGLS-ZZ (all algs learned, decent recog/execution) by US Nationals. :)
 

Matt S

Member
Joined
May 24, 2010
Messages
84
Ever since watching Erik Johnson's EJF2L video, I've really wanted to learn full CLS, because that would make the technique much more versatile. My guess is that it would be faster on average than any ZZ variation short of full ZB (other systems have better lucky cases, but this takes a chunk out of unlucky ones). Unfortunately, I doubt I'll ever learn it (not worth it until I get sub-20).

Petrus and ZZ definitely feel like the proper home for CLS. I know that Lucas obviously does awesome with it as part of his MGLS method, but he'd probably be similarly awesome with OLL.
 

ThatGuy

Member
Joined
Apr 6, 2009
Messages
615
Location
Durham, NC
WCA
2010GUSH01
I ZZ with OH because it feels really sexy and because I want to ZBLL. Just changed over yesterday. I messed around with ZZ a few weeks ago and sort of got the hang of it. My EOLine is fail but I can EO with the 15s inspection
 

Innocence

Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Messages
567
Location
Australia, mate.
Inb4koreancuber

I win the race to COLL, but my video isn't done yet. Will be soon, stay tuned.

I'm so lazy, this is my first youtube video. I'll probably throw in a fail ZZ average of 5 as well, to try my new algs out.
 

Innocence

Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Messages
567
Location
Australia, mate.
oh crud. i forgot about that. I have 2 subsets left (completely forgot about it). sorry about that. If you wanna race to ZBLL *_* tellme
Hehe just get COLL learned and we'll see about maybe a 1 subset ZBLL race later. :p

It's holidays, so I found some time each night to learn a subset, and I mirrored my sune for anti-sune.

I'll go ahead and finish that video anyway.
 
Joined
Jan 17, 2009
Messages
376
Location
Portland, OR (where the sun don't shine)
oh crud. i forgot about that. I have 2 subsets left (completely forgot about it). sorry about that. If you wanna race to ZBLL *_* tellme
Hehe just get COLL learned and we'll see about maybe a 1 subset ZBLL race later. :p

It's holidays, so I found some time each night to learn a subset, and I mirrored my sune for anti-sune.

I'll go ahead and finish that video anyway.
Get me in on a ZBLL race. I need the motivation, both for learning algs and making my document better- been stuck with 3 H sets for more than a month. I don't have a working camera yet, though.
 
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