# [Help Thread]Roux Discussion and Help

#### Marbles

##### Member
Hey everyone!
I noticed that every now and then I get the opportunity to finish the first two layers instead of doing 4b (Solving UL + UR) by doing a M U2 M' (or M' U2 M), giving me a U Perm to finish the solve. Do you do this as well / think this is a good idea? Or should the Roux UL / UR Solution be more efficient? I guess if finishing the first two layers give me an H or Z perm, it is not worth it?

To set up a situation similar to the one I describe, simply do a U Perm (e.g. (R U') (R U) (R U) (R U') R' U' R) and then M U2 M'.

Thank you in advance

#### xyzzy

##### Member
Hey everyone!
I noticed that every now and then I get the opportunity to finish the first two layers instead of doing 4b (Solving UL + UR) by doing a M U2 M' (or M' U2 M), giving me a U Perm to finish the solve. Do you do this as well / think this is a good idea? Or should the Roux UL / UR Solution be more efficient? I guess if finishing the first two layers give me an H or Z perm, it is not worth it?

To set up a situation similar to the one I describe, simply do a U Perm (e.g. (R U') (R U) (R U) (R U') R' U' R) and then M U2 M'.

Thank you in advance
M2 U M U2 M' U M' U2 M' will solve that case, fyi. (This is just MU U perm (M2 U M U2 M' U M2) cancelling into insert (M U2 M').)

General consensus is that this is not worth it; if you look at how the MU U perm algs work, or the common MU H and Z perm, algs, they're all essentially doing 4b then 4c. You're not skipping 4b/4c by setting up to EPLL; you're just doing it less efficiently.

#### obelisk477

##### Member
Hi! I am a roux solver for 3x3, and wondering if anyone knew about some intermediate roux subsets to share, or post a comment about a subset (for roux) that you made yourself! Good luck!
I genned 6-flip CMLL a while back

#### Marbles

##### Member
M2 U M U2 M' U M' U2 M' will solve that case, fyi. (This is just MU U perm (M2 U M U2 M' U M2) cancelling into insert (M U2 M').)

General consensus is that this is not worth it; if you look at how the MU U perm algs work, or the common MU H and Z perm, algs, they're all essentially doing 4b then 4c. You're not skipping 4b/4c by setting up to EPLL; you're just doing it less efficiently.
Thank you for your response! With the H and Z perms I noticed that they were essentially doing 4b / 4c. I did not know the MU U perms (only learned the 2-gen ones when I started with CFOP). But playing around with this helped me notice that I have an inefficiency in my current way of solving some 4b cases. For some reason, I would solve a "scramble" such as U M' U2 M (UL Edge between opposite colours) not simply with M' U2 M, but with the inefficient M U2 M' U2 M2. This might have contributed of my intuition of the U perms being faster.
Thank you!

#### Megaminxer

##### Member
Roux Users: Convince Me to Switch from CFOP. In order to justify leaving CFOP I'm going to need some solid arguments.

##### Member
I honestly don't care if you switch or not tbh.

#### Megaminxer

##### Member
I honestly don't care if you switch or not tbh.
I want to know the reasons you use Roux

##### Member
I want to know the reasons you use Roux
It's fast, fun and I like the other people in rms.

#### Sue Doenim

##### Member
Roux is nice because it's fun, different, low movecount, we'll structured, free, low alg count, nicely flowing, and other things .

#### Mr.Roux86

##### Member
Roux Users: Convince Me to Switch from CFOP. In order to justify leaving CFOP I'm going to need some solid arguments.
Roux is better because there is much more to explore. CFOP is for people who just look up how 2 solve rubix and go from there.

#### 1001010101001

##### Member
@Megaminxer
I think Roux is hard for Japanese color scheme because most users use white and yellow on blocks, and they start on yellow or white. The color scheme can completely mess up your second block.

##### Member
@Megaminxer
I think Roux is hard for Japanese color scheme because most users use white and yellow on blocks, and they start on yellow or white. The color scheme can completely mess up your second block.
Only if you normally use western colour scheme. Otherwise there should be no issue.

#### 1001010101001

##### Member
How do you solve a Megaminx with Roux? I use Roux for all cubic puzzles , square-1 and pyraminx(L4E, which is a Roux based method.). I just have to find a way for Skewbs and Megaminxes.

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#### Sue Doenim

##### Member
You really can't. You can use a blockbuilding method if you want though.

#### Megaminxer

##### Member
Okay, so it's official, I'm learning Roux!

Uh oh, I stink at blockbuilding. Where do I go for some help?
Thanks!
Asher

#### Sue Doenim

##### Member
I think Kian Mansour is doing a bunch of videos more geared towards beginners, and he's got a bunch of other food stuff too. His channel is probably one of the best Roux resources there is.
Edit: Oops, good stuff, not food stuff.

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#### Neuro

##### Member
Look at people's reconstructions. Reconstructions are very helpful to understand not only how the pieces pair/move during blocks but can also provide valuable insight in lookahead and fingertricks.

Another great resource is called block trainer. Essentially, you can choose what step you want to train (FB, SB, 2x2x2, 2x2x3, etc.) and it will provide a short scramble that can be solved in x moves. You get to choose the difficulty, ranging from 1-15 move blocks (stop at 6/7 though.) You can train blocks and try to find an efficient solution matching that movecount. You can also see the solution made by the computer to see the most efficient way to solve it.

One video I found very helpful was by teoidus called "Finding an Efficient First Block in Inspection." It's very good although long. It provides an almost branching method for finding good first blocks.

I find that SB is mostly practice and intuition, but I would take a look at some basic pairing and SB tips in Kian's Roux series. You can also use this series to review other concepts, such as FB and LSE.

Oddly enough, I consider my training with ZZ blockbuilding F2L to have given me an advantage namely in SB. I used to use ZZ, and I feel as though my practice in blockbuilding F2L helped me better understand how all the pieces move around the puzzle while in an easier to understand state. Perhaps this could help as well.

When starting, you can choose one of 3 main options for blockbuilding

Only do 1 FB every time (such as green with white bottom)
Solve any FB with a single bottom (y neutral, such always white bottom. 4 options)
Solve any FB with opposite bottoms (x2, y neutral. gives 8 FB options. Perhaps white/blue bottom if using Japanese scheme)

1 FB can be used to get a better understanding of blockbuilding in the very beginning as you always know the pieces required in FB, but it isn't recommended long term, as you won't always get access to a nice or the best first block.

y neutrality is a nice step forward because you always know what's on the bottom and top. It's a nice stepping stone into x2, y neutrality if you don't feel immediately comfortable moving into it. However, it has the same problem of not always giving access to best FB, although you do now have 3 more options.

x2, y is used by top solvers of the Roux method. With access to 8 FB's, you get a variety of different blocks to choose from. This allows you to choose the best FB while also having good SB/CMLL recognition later in the solve. However, I wouldn't recommend learning this until you are comfortable with FB.

I know it's a lot of info, but I hope this helps. Let me know if you want any more resources!

#### Sue Doenim

##### Member
What are peoples' thoughts on full color neutrality with Roux?

#### SpectralChimaera

##### Member
Personally, I'm not at all colour neutral. Blue lf and white bottom. However, I'd say 2 side colours and both vertical faces should give you enough variation to get decent solves.