[Help Thread] FMC Discussion

[porkynator]

Cool solutions, but didn't you orient something else too in your first step? Cool swap I just learned from IF:

Spoiler

B2 U2 F2 D2 F2 U2

.

Yes, I oriented edges too, and that's actually how I found that start. But for a domino solution I think "orienting edges" should refer to reduction to <U,D,R2,F2,L2,B2> and not just <U,D,R,L,F2,B2>. It's really not a big deal though.

 

[Daniel Lin]

hello I'm new to FMC, just started this week. here is my PB from today

Spoiler

Scramble: U L2 R2 D2 B2 L2 U' B2 U B2 R2 F' U' B2 L' D L F' R2 D2 R
Solution:
B2 R'// square
L D'* U B D L U2 R' U2 D2 // 2x2x3
D L D'// square
L' B2 U B2 U' L' B2 L'//L3C
*=[D', R' U R]
29 moves
don't know if the insertion is optimal

and one from forum comp

Spoiler

D2 F' U2 F D2 L2 F D2 B D2 R B F2 L U' B2 F' L U' L

F2 D' L B'// square
R F R L' U L2 F2 D'// F2L-1
R2 B R' B' D B' D2 R' D R B2 R' B' *R' //Make pair and VHLS(bad)
*[ U F' U',B']
32 moves
I found a really fast solution to L3C, But i didn't write it down and can't remember it

 

[Daniel Lin]

Cool swap I just learned from IF:

Spoiler

undefined

or (R2 F2)*3

 

[shadowslice e]

So if you do domino redux (I mean the {R2, L2, F2, B2, U, D} group) what good ways are there of finishing off the solve?

 

[irontwig]

You can just try to solve U and D without worrying about E and then do a insertion for those edges. You could also try to solve the corners or the edges to make a skeleton.

 

[irontwig]

Yet another edge cycle I learned from IF: [U,F' M2 F]

 

[penguinz7]

Random 24 move FMC
L2 F2 U2 B2 U' F2 U R2 F2 D U2 L' D B2 U' L B2 U' B' D' R

Spoiler

D //pair
(D' R' U R' F2) //2x2
(R2 U R U) //2x2x3
B R B' R //F2L-1
R B' R' B U' B U B' U' B' U // L3C

Skeleton: D B R B' R2 B' R' B U' B U # B' U' B' R' U' R2 F2 R U' R D 22 moves

Insert at # U' B' D' B U B' D B
Cancels 6 O.o

Final Solution:
D B R B' R2 B' R' B U' D' B U B' D U B' R' U' R2 F2 R U' R D
24 moves

 

[Daniel Lin]

Yet another edge cycle I learned from IF: [U,F' M2 F]

how the alg works
[U, B' E2 B]
=[U, b' E2 b]
=[U, F' M2 F]
other algs
[D B' D', M2]
[S U M', U]-useless for FMC

 

[TMarshall]

F' U' B2 U' B2 L2 F2 D2 B2 R2 D' U R' B U2 L D' F2 D2 B R'

Can anyone find a good solution with this scramble? The best I could find was a 7 move 2x2 and 12 move 2x2x3, and nothing good after that.

 

[unsolved]

F' U' B2 U' B2 L2 F2 D2 B2 R2 D' U R' B U2 L D' F2 D2 B R'

Can anyone find a good solution with this scramble? The best I could find was a 7 move 2x2 and 12 move 2x2x3, and nothing good after that.

Well you can get the corners in 9:

B U2 B L' U R U F2 R'

I'll see what else I can come up with.

 

[Cale S]

F' U' B2 U' B2 L2 F2 D2 B2 R2 D' U R' B U2 L D' F2 D2 B R'

Can anyone find a good solution with this scramble? The best I could find was a 7 move 2x2 and 12 move 2x2x3, and nothing good after that.

(R') F' R' D' // 2x2x2
(R B R' B' R B' R') B // 2x2x3
B' U B U2 L' // F2L - 1 + EO
L' U2 L U' // 3c3e

skeleton: F' R' D' U B U2 @ L2 U2 L U' R B R' B R B'
@ = U B L2 B' F U2 ^ F' U'
^ = [U2, B D2 B']

Final solution: F' R' D' U B U' B L2 F D2 B' U2 B D2 B' F' U' L2 U2 L U' R B R' B R B' - 27 moves


Insertion Finder got a 29 with my 3c3e skeleton hehe

 

[unsolved]

The best I could do using my 5x5x5 program was 31 moves with 2 edges left to orient. It did solve the cube finally, but it needed slice moves, which are naturally not present on the 3x3x3.

This program, at present, can only "see" 12 moves deep. Watching it convert an unknown position into one in which it could solve was rather amusing.

B U2 B L' U R U F2 R'
// corners in 9 moves, simple database lookup

L' F B2 R' U D' F' B2 L U F B' U D B' D2 R2 D2 B' U' D' B2
// here the program is just one alg away from finishing, but it only has an incomplete set of algs computed so far, so it can't resolve this!

R2 3U R' U2 R 3U' R2 3U2 R U2 R' 3U2
// those prior 12 moves net the most progress given it still can't solve the cube.

2U R 2B2 R' B2 R 2B2 R' B2 2U'
// a creative try, considering it still lacked the alg to complete the cube

2F R 2U R' U2 R 2U' R' U2 2F'

 

[irontwig]

(R') F' R' D' // 2x2x2
(R B R' B' R B' R') B // 2x2x3
B' U B U2 L' // F2L - 1 + EO
L' U2 L U' // 3c3e

skeleton: F' R' D' U B U2 @ L2 U2 L U' R B R' B R B'
@ = U B L2 B' F U2 ^ F' U'
^ = [U2, B D2 B']

Final solution: F' R' D' U B U' B L2 F D2 B' U2 B D2 B' F' U' L2 U2 L U' R B R' B R B' - 27 moves


Insertion Finder got a 29 with my 3c3e skeleton hehe

Cool, did you see that you would the corner cycle would cancel nicely, or was it just something you tried since the regular 7-mover result in 29 move total? Continuing the theme of edges being difficult, has anybody here used [R B L F,U]?

 

[Torch]

I found an interesting 2C2E insertion for the speedsolving weekly comp scramble, though I didn't use it in my submitted solution because I was running out of time and couldn't figure out if I had written it down correctly. Here's the solution:

Spoiler

Scramble: D2 F' U2 F D2 L2 F D2 B D2 R B F2 L U' B2 F' L U' L

(B' D B F' L F' D')//2x2x2
(R B' R B)//2x2x3
L F L'//ALL THE BLOCKS
(U L' U' L)//F2L-1
(R' F D' F' D F' R)//2C2E

Skeleton: L F L' R' F D' F D F' R L' U L [1] U' B' R' B R' D F L' F B' D' B

[1]: L' U' F U F' U' F' U2 L U' F' U' F U

Solution: L F L' R' F D' F D F' R L' F U F' U' F' U2 L U' F' U' F B' R' B R' D F L' F B' D' B (33)

I saw that a T perm inserted at that would solve the 2C2E, but wouldn't cancel moves. Then I looked at mirroring the T perm, which still didn't cancel. Finally I inverted the mirrored T perm, which has the same effect obviously, and it canceled 6 moves!

 

[Attila]

Scramble from previous weekly FMC:
D F B U2 R L' U' B2 L' D' B' L2 F2 R2 U' F L' D2 F2 B'

I found a nice CF continuation for this Roux FB start:
B (B U')

Spoiler

B (B U') Roux FB,
F2 L2 R B orient corners and 6 edges,
R B2 R B2 L2 F2 R' /F' D2 R' L B2 D'/ L B2 domino solution with /inserted LSE/.
Final solution:
B F2 L2 R B R B2 R B2 L2 F2 R' F' D2 R' L B2 D' L B2 U B' 22 moves.

 

[Robert-Y]

Attila: What did you do to obtain the domino solution with inserted LSE? Can you please explain it in more detail? Did you force an easy LSE case by trying out different ways to solve the domino? I'm really lost with that...

 

[Attila]

Attila: What did you do to obtain the domino solution with inserted LSE? Can you please explain it in more detail? Did you force an easy LSE case by trying out different ways to solve the domino? I'm really lost with that...

Spoiler

So, after corners orientation, I try out a few different way, which will permute corners:
R' B2 R B2 R' B2 R' maybe this is the shortest permutation, but 3 oriented edges moved to wrong places.
Another way: R B2 R' B2 R B2 R B2 it seems better, but the 6th edge still wrong,
Finally: R B2 R B2(square on R face!) R2 B2 R' B2 R B2 a longer permutation, but 6 edges solved.
For better LSE insertion, I changed this 10-move permutation:
R B2 R B2 L2 F2 R' prepare LSE,
instead of F2, now insert F' D2 R' L B2 D'
then L B2 finish.
The easy LSE case I not forced this time, I was just a bit lucky.

 

[Kit Clement]

For ongoing weekly FMC:

Spoiler

Easily the most comical FMC attempt I've ever done. The skeleton is silly, and I used a 12 move edge comm that cancelled 7 moves for my insertion, which beat out IF.

Scramble: B2 D' F L2 U' B R' L2 U D R2 L2 D R2 L' U2 L' B F2 R'

L' F2 B U R' //2x2x2
D' B D U' (1) B2 U2 //2x2x3
L' B L2 B L B2 //L3E

D' U L' D U' B2 D' U L D U' B2 (cancels 7)

Final: L' F2 B U R' D' B L' D U' B2 D' U L D U L' B L2 B L B2 (22)

 

[sqAree]

scramble: U' F2 U F2 L2 B2 F2 D' U B' D' R B2 L2 D' F2 D B2 L

L U' R2 //2x2x2
U B D2 U' B2 //2x2x3
L2 F' D F L' D2 L2 //F2L-1

So I found this nice start and ended up with a 39 move solution (random last slots, short OLL, U perm with cancellations).

Anyone sees something promising?
I thought the usual way to proceed would be something like this:

D L D L' //pair
D F' D' F //EO
D L D2 L' D2 //F2L + edges

Inserting two corner 3-cycles leads to 37 moves which is pretty disappointing as well.

 

[Torch]

scramble: U' F2 U F2 L2 B2 F2 D' U B' D' R B2 L2 D' F2 D B2 L

L U' R2 //2x2x2
U B D2 U' B2 //2x2x3
L2 F' D F L' D2 L2 //F2L-1

So I found this nice start and ended up with a 39 move solution (random last slots, short OLL, U perm with cancellations).

Anyone sees something promising?
I thought the usual way to proceed would be something like this:

D L D L' //pair
D F' D' F //EO
D L D2 L' D2 //F2L + edges

Inserting two corner 3-cycles leads to 37 moves which is pretty disappointing as well.

You can get to last 4 corners like this: L D2 L' D' L' F L F' (notice the first move cancels with your part of the solution). Insertion finder says you can get 29 moves with that.

However, I also noticed that you could solve the same F2L-1 in fewer moves like this:
L U' R2//2x2x2
L2 D' B' D' B2//2x2x3
B D' B' L D2 L//F2L-1

and continue to L4C with:
L D L' D F' D F D//L4C

which saves two moves over the other solution. Always look for different ways to put together the same blocks!