[Help Thread] FMC Discussion

[porkynator]

I bothered to find a (partial) solution after all.

S: R' U' F D2 L2 D2 B2 D2 B' F2 L2 B L2 D' F2 D2 L R2 B' F2 D' B R2 U' R' U' F

F U' F U2 R' F U F'//2x2x3 (8)
inverse,
L U' L2 B2 L//EO
U B2//F2L-1
normal,
B U B' U B U B'//4C

IF gives 29

There is a pretty easy (=almost CFOP) linear continuation for 28 total moves:
F U' F U2 R' F U F'
U2 B L' B' L
B R' U R U'
U' B2 U
L' B2 L B L' B L B2

 

[Jaysammey777]

1st Place at All Aboard: choo choo
Scramble: R' U' F D2 F2 L2 U2 L2 F L2 U2 F2 L B2 D L' R' U' L2 R' U R' U' F
EO: L' F (2/2)
Line: L' R' U (3/5)
1x2x2: L2 D L2 D (4/9)
Switch to Inverse:
Psuedo 2x2x3: R2 D L' D' L (5/14)
AB3C: D R' D' R' D2 R' D R2 L (9/23)
Skeleton: L' F L' R' U L2 D L2 D L' R2 D' R D2 R D R D' L' * D L D' R2
Insert at *: R' U' R D2 R' U R D2 (8/31)
Cancellations: D2 D = D' 31-1 = 30 HTM

Skeleton found in 21 mins. Spent 28 mins looking to cancel 2 moves, only got one, total time was 49 minutes.

Spoiler

Just looked it up. OPTIMAL WAS 2 CANCELLED UGHHGHGHGHGHGHHHGHG
L' F * L' R'
* = F2 L B2 L' F2 L B2 L'
This makes me sad.

 

[Cale S]

1st place at KCubing Winter 2017

Scramble: L2 D' B2 L F' L' B2 L F L2 B2 U2 F' L U2 L' D2 L U2 L' B' U2 B2 D2 F' U F D2 L'

L (L2 D' L') // EO
(B2 U2 F' D2) // 2x2x2
(B' U2 B2 D2 F' U F D2) // 16 to good L6C

L D2 F' U' F D2 B2 U2 B D2 ^ F U2 B2 L @ D L2
^ = [D2, L U2 L']
@ = [L F' L', B2]

Solution: L D2 F' U' F D2 B2 U2 B L U2 L' D2 L U2 L' F U2 B2 L2 F' L' B2 L F L' B2 D L2
29 moves

bad scramble, nice skeleton, bad insertions

edit: after trying more stuff with my EO, I found 3 ways to get to 26

 

[guysensei1]

weekly, 27

Spoiler

s: D R' L2 D2 R2 F B D2 L' F2 D L' B F2 L R' B' F L' R2

On inverse with premove U2:
U2 F L'//2x2x2
U F' U' F R//2x2x3
D F D F' D2//F2L-1
U D' L D F2 D2 L' D2 F2 U'//ZBF2L
U F2 U2 F' U2 F' U2 F2 U//LL

6 moves cancel out.

Final: U F2 U2 F U2 F U2 D2 L D2 F2 D' L' D' U' F D' F' D' R' F' U F U' L F' U2

 

[daver12345]

I have a quick question about FMC. So I went to All Aboard and I DNFed my FMC solve.
I started with a 2x2x2 block in inverse and built off of that alternating between inverse and regular. What I was confused about was how to write the final solution. I couldn't figure out what order I should have put them in and DNFed because I couldn't understand it. If anyone could help me understand, that would be great. Thanks!

 

[xyzzy]

I started with a 2x2x2 block in inverse and built off of that alternating between inverse and regular. What I was confused about was how to write the final solution. I couldn't figure out what order I should have put them in and DNFed because I couldn't understand it.

Copy out all the moves done on the normal scramble first (in order), then copy out the moves done on the inverse scramble (reversed). So if your solution looks something like this:

start on inverse: part1
switch to normal: part2
switch to inverse: part3
switch to normal: part4

You write it out as part2 part4 (part3)' (part1)'. See also porkynator's FMC tutorial (the NISS section) for a more detailed explanation.

 

[guysensei1]

I used an unusual insertion for FMC, scramble from reddit's daily scramble.

s: U R B' R' F L D' R2 B' D' R2 B R' D2 F L U L B' L'
premove: F
U' F' L F2//2x2x2
U2 L2 B' U2 B'//2x2x3
B' U' B L' U L'//2c4e
Skeleton: U' F' L @ F2 U2 L2 B' U2 B2 U' B L' U L' F
@=B2 R' B2 # D2 L' D' L D'
#=B' D F2 D' B D F2 D'

Final: U' F' L B2 R' B D F2 D' B D F2 D L' D' L D' F2 U2 L2 B' U2 B2 U' B L' U L' F (29)

Now, the explanation for the wacky insertion:
To use Jay/Brest's insertion method at @, perform F2 U2 L2 B' U2 B2 U' B L' U L' F then the scramble, then U' F' L
Now we can see how it works
B2 R' B2//solve white cross edge
D2 L' D' L D'//insert F2L pair, leaving 3C

I'm not sure about normal ways to deal with a 2C4E, I think i got quite lucky this time.

 

[Attila]

German Forum, 3rd scramble (ongoing)

R' U' F D' L2 B2 D' L2 F2 D F2 R2 U' F' D2 L D U' F2 U R' F' U' R' U' F

Spoiler

R' U2 D2 R2 D2 B orient corners,
L2 U' F B' R orient edges,
F2 U2 B2 D U2
L D2 U2 R
D' F2 D2

 

[guysensei1]

Reddit daily scramble, 28HTM
scramble: D' B D R2 D F L' F2 D2 L2 U2 R B' U2 F' L' U2 R2 D R2

Spoiler

R' U2//2x2x1
switch to inverse,
U2 B R2//2x2x2
D L'//pairs
F D' F//square
L2 F' L'//F2L-1
D' F2 D F//another square, leaves 3 corners and 3 edges
L//setup move
B' D' B R F D F' R' D' //easy LL algorithm
L'//undo setup
Final: R' U2 L D R F D' F' R' B' D B L' F' D' F2 D L F L2 F' D F' L D' R2 B' U2 (28)

Not sure if there are easier ways to deal with those last 6 pieces.

 

[bubbagrub]

I have a question about EO: My normal speedsolving method is CFOP, so EO is not an idea that comes very naturally to me. I understand how to use it after building a 223, but I don't understand what people are doing when they do EO at the beginning of an FMC solve. Specifically: if I understand it correctly, for a given scramble, an unsolved edge can be considered to be either oriented or unoriented depending on which faces you are considering orientation in relation to. So when doing EO at the start, I guess you're committing to a particular orientation of the cube, and to avoiding certain moves that would break EO.

Can anyone explain how you use EO at the start of a solve? And is my understanding of how EO works right?

 

[Rcuber123]

Can I get a link for IF?

 

[parsa]

Can I get a link for IF?

fewestmov.es

 

[porkynator]

I have a question about EO: My normal speedsolving method is CFOP, so EO is not an idea that comes very naturally to me. I understand how to use it after building a 223, but I don't understand what people are doing when they do EO at the beginning of an FMC solve. Specifically: if I understand it correctly, for a given scramble, an unsolved edge can be considered to be either oriented or unoriented depending on which faces you are considering orientation in relation to. So when doing EO at the start, I guess you're committing to a particular orientation of the cube, and to avoiding certain moves that would break EO.

Can anyone explain how you use EO at the start of a solve? And is my understanding of how EO works right?

Yes, it's correct. To learn how to do EO at the beginning of the solve you should look at some ZZ method tutorial, for example this one: http://cube.crider.co.uk/zz.php
Basically, choosing an orientation means you pick two opposite layers (e.g. F and B) that you don't want to move anymore in the solve (actually it is more convenient to allow oneself to use F2 ad B2). Then an edge is correctly oriented if it can be put correctly into place without turning those layers, it is wrong otherwise.
In practice there are faster ways to detect if an edge is correct or not, based on "which color is facing which side".

 

[Rcuber123]

fewestmov.es

Can't get it to work.
I inserted an ab3c skeleton and it says that there is parity and it only let's me hit "pure insertion".

Edit: nvm I fixed it. Yay my insertion was optimal!

 

[Cale S]

cool insertion from weekly German FMC

Spoiler

R' U' F D' L2 B2 D' L2 F2 D F2 R2 U' F' D2 L D U' F2 U R' F' U' R' U' F

L U F L' U2 // 2x2x2
L' B2 // 2x2x3
(L2 D2) D' // F2L - 1
(L2 F L F' L F' D F D') // L4E

L U F L' U2 L' B2 F' D' F L' F @ L' F' L2 D2 L2
@ = F' L' F L U2 B L B' L' U2

Solution: L U F L' U2 L' B2 F' D' F L2 F L U2 B L B' L' U2 L' F' L2 D2 L2
24 moves

found the 4E alg by doing a 1 move setup to an ELL:
U (U' F' L' F L U) (U B L B' L' U') U'

 

[T1_M0]

Ok, I have never tried fmc but would like to start learning. My question is about the best method to begin with (or give guidelines). Cfop can take over 60 moves for me so I'd like to learn a new method. I've heard that for example Roux and ZZ take much less moves. However I have no idea how any other method work so I'd like to get a good tutorial (if someone could recommend one).

So again: I'd like to learn as move-efficient and easy method as possible and a get tutorial for that to start learning fmc properly. Of course you can give fmc tips for cfop also if you think that's better.

If there is already a discussion about this, you could guide me there.

 

[Elo13]

Ok, I have never tried fmc but would like to start learning. My question is about the best method to begin with (or give guidelines). Cfop can take over 60 moves for me so I'd like to learn a new method. I've heard that for example Roux and ZZ take much less moves. However I have no idea how any other method work so I'd like to get a good tutorial (if someone could recommend one).

So again: I'd like to learn as move-efficient and easy method as possible and a get tutorial for that to start learning fmc properly. Of course you can give fmc tips for cfop also if you think that's better.

If there is already a discussion about this, you could guide me there.

I highly recommend checking out SpeedCubeReview's fmc tutorials on YouTube. At first it might be good to just get familiar with building blocks before going on to the more advanced concepts.

 

[xyzzy]

Of course you can give fmc tips for cfop also if you think that's better.

CFOP tends to be not very useful for FMC, but it's still possible to get sub-60 solves with CFOP and it's useful as an alternative when nothing else seems to work well.

• Be fully colour neutral.
• Use optimal F2L algs, especially for non-intuitive cases.
• Don't always restore the cross immediately after inserting a pair; sometimes you can leave out the last move of an F2L insert to get a better case for the next pair.
• Use edge control.
  
• Learn the short optimal PLL algs (A, H, J, T, U) if you don't already know the optimal versions.
  
• Use keyhole when you can.
  
• Some OLL algs can be executed from multiple angles (e.g. double Sune), and using different angles can sometimes force a better PLL.

 

[AlphaSheep]

Ok, I have never tried fmc but would like to start learning. My question is about the best method to begin with (or give guidelines). Cfop can taken e over 60 moves for me so I'd like to learn a new method. I've heard that for example Roux and ZZ take much less moves. However I have no idea how any other method work so I'd like to get a good tutorial (if someone could recommend one).

So again: I'd like to learn as move-efficient and easy method as possible and a get tutorial for that to start learning fmc properly. Of course you can give fmc tips for cfop also if you think that's better.

If there is already a discussion about this, you could guide me there.

Don't learn a method for FMC. Rather learn to solve any scramble intuitively.

To go from CFOP to a decent blockbuilding, solve cross and your first F2L pair on one cube. Then on another cube look at the samescramble and see how many moves you can save if you build the same block, but without solving the two extra cross edges. Carry on with expanding the block by inserting only the cross edge that you need for that block.

With regards to color neutrality, if you're you're not color neutral, you can take advantage of the fact that you have three cubes. Do the scramble normally on the first cube, do it with an x rotation on the second cube, and with a z rotation on the third cube.

The last thing to remember is that good FMC solutions are 100% taking advantages of lucky cases. The top solvers only have a larger collection of tricks to look for, and the more tricks you have, the more likely it is that one will be lucky. So take full advantage of your hour. Try as many different approaches as possible. Look at where pieces are going and try to force skips.

It's not to hard to average around 40 moves just by doing simple tricks like this.

 

[T1_M0]

Nice, I'll try these!