[Help Thread] Colour Neutral Discussion and Help

[cmhardw]

Update for me:

I'm averaging probably around the mid 17's on color neutral now, with the occasional mid-16 average. Pre-color neutral (white/yellow neutral only) I was averaging in the low 15's with somewhat frequent sub-15 averages. It seems that I'm about 2 seconds slower than pre-color neutral and still closing the gap.

I've recently been using a "solve any color but white or yellow" warm up routine, then I'll go into my color neutral averages. So for example I might do 2 averages solving the best of green, blue, red, or orange. After that I go into solving the best color I see.

This really is quite a lot of fun! I'm hoping to get down to my pre-color neutral times before the end of 2012! Wish me luck!

 

[Achifaifa]

Another update, I'm averaging now 40-50s (36s white first). It's not that hard, but I really suck at F2L, specially with green. I should change the stickers once and for all xD

 

[jskyler91]

Update for me:

I'm averaging probably around the mid 17's on color neutral now, with the occasional mid-16 average. Pre-color neutral (white/yellow neutral only) I was averaging in the low 15's with somewhat frequent sub-15 averages. It seems that I'm about 2 seconds slower than pre-color neutral and still closing the gap.

I've recently been using a "solve any color but white or yellow" warm up routine, then I'll go into my color neutral averages. So for example I might do 2 averages solving the best of green, blue, red, or orange. After that I go into solving the best color I see.

This really is quite a lot of fun! I'm hoping to get down to my pre-color neutral times before the end of 2012! Wish me luck!

Assuming you stick to it, I wouldn't be surprised if this happend a lot sooner

Another update, I'm averaging now 40-50s (36s white first). It's not that hard, but I really suck at F2L, specially with green. I should change the stickers once and for all xD

Good job, keep up the good work!!!

 

[Godmil]

Hmm, another week of yellow only I think... still not caught up

 

[Arkwell]

In search of a thread where you can get some tips on how to become color neutral or simply discuss your triumphs and failures at making the transition? Well you have come to the right place!!!

To keep this thread productive and useful, here are a few guidelines as to how this thread should look:

What this thread IS:

- A place to discuss possible methods for transitioning to Color Neutrality
- A place to post videos and/or personal logs on how your transition is going
- A place to give your experiences on said transition
- A place to learn how to become Color Neutral and more importantly, how NOT to become Color Neutral

What this thread is NOT:

- This thread is NOT a place to discuss reasons to or not to change to Color Neutrality (for a thread of this nature please see Kirjava's insightful Color Neutral Deliberation Thread: http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?34587-Colour-Neutral-Deliberation)
- This thread is NOT a place to bash Color Neutrality or Color Fixedness
- This thread is NOT a place to attack other people's ideas or contributions (everyone should feel free to speak their mind without fear of flaming)

My hope is that we can make this thread a place where anyone who is wishing to or currently in the progress of transitioning to Color Neutrality can post their results and discuss what they did right and what they might have done differently.

With these guidelines in mind, I would like to open up this thread with a discussion of how to transition to Color Neutrality and in particular what method(s) those of you who have made the transition used to do it. Those of you who have tried to make this transition and failed, should also list your method(s) as well so that we can learn from your hard work. Please make sure to list how long you tried your method and what exactly your method consisted of. Those who are currently making the transition can feel free to chime in and give tips whenever. Those who are Bicolor neutral should also feel free to give input as well.

I hope you guys make good use of this thread.

I will start off:

My method for transitioning to color neutrality can be found here: http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?34655-My-Tips-for-Becoming-Color-Neutral
In short, my method required not using my normal color for an entire month and switching to a new color every 5 days trying to develop the 3 color filters required for a good Color Neutral lookahead. One of the biggest challenges of my method was simply sticking to it; it can be very tempting to switch back to what is comfortable. Also, I found that learning the Red and Orange color scheme to be extra difficult and actually spent around a week on each of those color to get comfortable with them. If I had to give some tips they would be to stick through it and do a great deal of deep cross planning where you try to plan out at least your cross and first pair if not more. This will help your mind to start adjusting to the different colors more rapidly. I made this transition in about a month.

I don't know if this will help but I'm coming from ZZ and started CFOP in CN but to make sure I don't stick to one color I do a variation of what Thrawst had on his site.
I bought six blank dice colored Red, Blue, Green, White, Yellow & Orange. Put them in a cup, throw them out in a line and solve the cube six times in the order that the dice came out ie:Just threw the dice out and got Blue, Orange, White, Green, Red, Yellow. Now I solve the cube crosses in that order no matter how hard it is to find the pieces. This way challenges me not to get used to any one cross(Although I seem to be most comfortable with Blue)

 

[cmhardw]

Assuming you stick to it, I wouldn't be surprised if this happend a lot sooner

Wow! I think you're right about this. The more and more I practice the color neutral switch, the more I am realizing that it is not as hard as I thought it was initially.

Tonight something just clicked during my averages, I don't know any other way to describe it. I noticed that I stopped paying as much attention to colors as before, and I started focusing more on the blocks themselves, if that makes any sense. I'm 3 weeks into my transition, which I would describe as mostly cold turkey style. I do still do "anything but white/yellow" averages to warm up, but for the most part I am just simply picking the easiest cross color when I am timing myself.


wbogrooroobo
16.58, 15.40, (21.01), 15.91, 15.25, 17.56, 17.56, 14.96, (14.62), 17.77, 15.76, 15.48 = 16.22

owbbbrbowbrb
14.83, 13.55, 14.38, 15.09, 15.66, (19.79), 14.50, 17.81, 17.46, (13.14), 14.76, 16.56 = 15.46

Here are two of my averages that I just took. The cross color for each solve is marked in the line above the average. 15.46 is my new color neutral pb average! I'm not completely without color bias yet. I do notice that I am a monster on blue comparatively, and that my green and red still need work. Also, I do sometimes flump up a white or yellow solve, I think because I get too comfortable that "I know this color well" and I relax too much.

Anyway, the more I experiment with the whole color neutral thing, the more I see that it really isn't as hard as people make it out to be. I've been solving white/yellow neutral since 2005, so I have 6.5 years of habit to overcome. Also, I've done tons of solves on white and yellow, and comparatively few on the other colors. The one argument that I don't have going for me is that I'm not fast by modern standards, so this could be one reason why the transition time is easier for me than some of the faster people.

If I get to the point where I am averaging in the mid 15's with color neutral, then I will have equaled my color fixed speed, which is insane to me! I feel like I might be able to get really comfortable with color neutral in a matter of a couple months, not several months which was my original thought.

Man this is so much fun! I am definitely a color neutral convert! If nothing else I find that I am enjoying speedcubing again, whereas before I was getting bored with the fact that I was stuck on the OK plateau and not improving.

 

[Cool Frog]

Might as well post this here, In the process of doing a fixed block; I average like 20's with rather consistent sub 20's.
I got my times nearly the same with the same block (Slightly higher and less consistant). I have, however, become more consistent and have gotten quite a number of 16 second averages of 12 lately. (CN)

 

[HeyCuber]

I'm doing pretty good now, actually. I've started to look for the easiest cross and I can get decent times on any colour. I even got my PB (31.05) when I started with blue and blue isn't my best colour. So yeah, CN is not so hard if you start it early. I average 40-45 seconds now.

 

[5BLD]

Im properly bi-CN now. On the edge between sub- and sup-10 with both white and yellow but I have to warm up with yellow for longer.

 

[DaKrazedKyubizt]

Sometimes, I'll forget about color neutrality and end up doing mainly W/Y semi-neutrality, like I used to be. But if I'm focused on being color neutral, I get pretty much the same times, give or take a few tenths of a second. I think my PB RA of 12 is actually a CN average.

When I'm focused on color neutrality, I find myself working a lot harder to find pieces. Not exactly struggling, but still working really hard.

Am I color neutral or am I not? Do I have to comfortable with color neutrality to be color neutral, or do I just need to get the same times as I do when solving "normally" (which, for me, is still W/Y semi-neutrality)?

 

[Arkwell]

AFAIK Thrawst was always CN. Also, the 1x1 method is kind of silly because it doesn't train you to look for the best cross in inspection, you just arbitrarily pick one.

I think the object of Thrawst's 1x1 cube exercise was just to get you comfortable solving on any color(My variation as a noob to CFOP coming from ZZ is to use 6 blank dice in the Rubik's colors, throw out all 6 and solve the six crosses in the order the dice came out in so I'm always solving all six colors in different order. Then I try looking for an optimum cross)

 

[jskyler91]

Wow! I think you're right about this. The more and more I practice the color neutral switch, the more I am realizing that it is not as hard as I thought it was initially.

Tonight something just clicked during my averages, I don't know any other way to describe it. I noticed that I stopped paying as much attention to colors as before, and I started focusing more on the blocks themselves, if that makes any sense. I'm 3 weeks into my transition, which I would describe as mostly cold turkey style. I do still do "anything but white/yellow" averages to warm up, but for the most part I am just simply picking the easiest cross color when I am timing myself.


wbogrooroobo
16.58, 15.40, (21.01), 15.91, 15.25, 17.56, 17.56, 14.96, (14.62), 17.77, 15.76, 15.48 = 16.22

owbbbrbowbrb
14.83, 13.55, 14.38, 15.09, 15.66, (19.79), 14.50, 17.81, 17.46, (13.14), 14.76, 16.56 = 15.46

Here are two of my averages that I just took. The cross color for each solve is marked in the line above the average. 15.46 is my new color neutral pb average! I'm not completely without color bias yet. I do notice that I am a monster on blue comparatively, and that my green and red still need work. Also, I do sometimes flump up a white or yellow solve, I think because I get too comfortable that "I know this color well" and I relax too much.

Anyway, the more I experiment with the whole color neutral thing, the more I see that it really isn't as hard as people make it out to be. I've been solving white/yellow neutral since 2005, so I have 6.5 years of habit to overcome. Also, I've done tons of solves on white and yellow, and comparatively few on the other colors. The one argument that I don't have going for me is that I'm not fast by modern standards, so this could be one reason why the transition time is easier for me than some of the faster people.

If I get to the point where I am averaging in the mid 15's with color neutral, then I will have equaled my color fixed speed, which is insane to me! I feel like I might be able to get really comfortable with color neutral in a matter of a couple months, not several months which was my original thought.

Man this is so much fun! I am definitely a color neutral convert! If nothing else I find that I am enjoying speedcubing again, whereas before I was getting bored with the fact that I was stuck on the OK plateau and not improving.

This is really awesome dude, I hope you continue to stick with it because it sounds like you are getting close to a complete breakthrough. What you are describing is exactly what i have been trying to tell everyone for months now: if you stick to it the transition can be done quickly. Great work man

 

[jskyler91]

Sometimes, I'll forget about color neutrality and end up doing mainly W/Y semi-neutrality, like I used to be. But if I'm focused on being color neutral, I get pretty much the same times, give or take a few tenths of a second. I think my PB RA of 12 is actually a CN average.

When I'm focused on color neutrality, I find myself working a lot harder to find pieces. Not exactly struggling, but still working really hard.

Am I color neutral or am I not? Do I have to comfortable with color neutrality to be color neutral, or do I just need to get the same times as I do when solving "normally" (which, for me, is still W/Y semi-neutrality)?

I would say your on the right track, I bet if you switched to CN permanently you would have it down in less than a month.

Im properly bi-CN now. On the edge between sub- and sup-10 with both white and yellow but I have to warm up with yellow for longer.

Thats great for you man, sometimes being Bi color neutral is what works for you. It is really nice to hear that some fast cubers are having success switching

 

[cmhardw]

This is really awesome dude, I hope you continue to stick with it because it sounds like you are getting close to a complete breakthrough. What you are describing is exactly what i have been trying to tell everyone for months now: if you stick to it the transition can be done quickly. Great work man

Thanks jskyler! I feel like I was initially hesitant toward the claims you were making about the switch not being so hard. The more I get into it though the more I think that this is correct, at least for cubers in the approximately 15 second average range. I have no idea how difficult the switch would be from color fixed to color neutral for those close to sub-10 or those already sub-10.

General open question to those trying to switch:
Is anyone else having trouble on their last F2L pair recognition? I am noticing that on white/yellow crosses (my old colors) that I can just blaze through the penultimate F2L pair at quite a brisk pace and still locate the last F2L pair during the fast turning. For non-white/yellow solves I seem to have trouble looking ahead to the last F2L pair when going too quickly while solving the penultimate pair. I'm going to try slowing down my penultimate pair pacing to see if this helps for my last pair recognition.

I'm just curious if any others are also having the same issue.

 

[Achifaifa]

I'm having some problems with F2l using blue and green first. It's hard to look ahead when the colors are that dark, I'll probably change the stickers the next month.

Also, I did 36s solves with red and orange first, so I think I'm doing some progress there. The cross and the LL are really good tho, Only getting better at F2L I could do sub30 averages without problem.

@cmhardw Yep, me too. I guess I'm not used to look ahead for those colours and it's just a matter of practising it.

 

[Zyrb]

I recently started to become CN. It's been about 2 weeks and I'm pretty equal with all sides now (except white), all that's left is to get my times down. The biggest problem I run into is I worry about the colours so much, when I go from cross to first pair I sometimes forget what colour cross I did. That doesn't happen a lot but when it does it is really annoying. I find that becoming CN has really helped my look-ahead because if I don't look ahead it takes a very long time to find the next pair which gives me more motivation than I had before.

 

[cmhardw]

Woot! First sub-15 color neutral average of 10!

15.37, 14.53, 16.72, 13.24, 13.11, (17.90), 14.26, 17.06, 13.50, (12.12), 13.41, 13.76 = 14.50

This is still fun! I'm gonna stick with it!

 

[Sillas]

Woot! First sub-15 color neutral average of 10!

15.37, 14.53, 16.72, 13.24, 13.11, (17.90), 14.26, 17.06, 13.50, (12.12), 13.41, 13.76 = 14.50

This is still fun! I'm gonna stick with it!

Really nice, Chris! The progression with CN is so hard.

 

[emolover]

I have noticed that for big even layered cubes, when I do reduction I have to do green or blue last. But with OBLBL it doesn't matter at all which colours I use.

 

[cmhardw]

Really nice, Chris! The progression with CN is so hard.

Yes, I think it is difficult too. I am having to consciously tell myself to look at the other cross colors on some solves. I find myself mechanically only checking white/yellow sometimes.

What's helping me is to think of it like this: I am not switching to color neutral. I am color neutral, but that means that I'm now a slower cuber. This helps to motivate me to keep practicing to improve my times. Effectively I'm setting new PBs again, which is exciting!