Petrus is like, so dead now.

Do you use Petrus (or even a variation of it)


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Well, Petrus-W is a compromise.
We... Don’t... Really use Allan now. (F2 U’ R’ L F2 R L’ U’ F2). Plus you can 1LLL the last layer.
Both of these responses raise the question of how to define the Petrus method. How far can you deviate from the method as described on Lars Petrus's website before it's a new method? Lars Petrus himself on his website raises the possibility of one-look last layer (which I suppose would be ZBLL), so this seems like it's still Petrus. Petrus-W seems like a different method altogether though.

If you make a 2x2x3 block but leave out the EO step before completing the last layer, is it still Petrus?

I know this is a question of semantics and there is no right answer, but I’m interested in how PetrusQuber defines Petrus since this is their thread.
 
Both of these responses raise the question of how to define the Petrus method. How far can you deviate from the method as described on Lars Petrus's website before it's a new method? Lars Petrus himself on his website raises the possibility of one-look last layer (which I suppose would be ZBLL), so this seems like it's still Petrus. Petrus-W seems like a different method altogether though.

If you make a 2x2x3 block but leave out the EO step before completing the last layer, is it still Petrus?

I know this is a question of semantics and there is no right answer, but I’m interested in how PetrusQuber defines Petrus since this is their thread.
I really define it as doing 2x2, 2x3, F2L, and LL. Anything different (like no EO or petrus-w) is still a Petrus, but just a varaint.
 
Both of these responses raise the question of how to define the Petrus method. How far can you deviate from the method as described on Lars Petrus's website before it's a new method? Lars Petrus himself on his website raises the possibility of one-look last layer (which I suppose would be ZBLL), so this seems like it's still Petrus. Petrus-W seems like a different method altogether though.

If you make a 2x2x3 block but leave out the EO step before completing the last layer, is it still Petrus?

I know this is a question of semantics and there is no right answer, but I’m interested in how PetrusQuber defines Petrus since this is their thread.
It kinda becomes FreeFOP.
 
We... Don’t... Really use Allan now. (F2 U’ R’ L F2 R L’ U’ F2). Plus you can 1LLL the last layer.
Write it as R2 U' S' U2 S U' R2 and it becomes a reasonably fast U perm alg. (My first (and thus far only) sub-8 single ended with that!)

Also, dudefaceguy's remark applies not just to Allan, but also the very popular MU U perm algs: M2 U M' U2 M U M2 and mirrors thereof.
 
Two times this thread has been brought back from the dead now, every time when I thought it was gone for good :)
My definition of Petrus is 2x2x2, 2x2x3, EO, F2L, LL. But there can be extensions. Just like with CFOP, you have XCross, Psuedoslotting, WV, etc. I recognise 2x2x3 done in anyway to be pretty much Petrus, for example. If we want to be fast with Petrus, we have to not limit ourselves in blockbuilding. So we can’t limit ourselves in steps. Do 2x2x3 at once. EO during F2L. Influence EO while doing 2x2x3. I all consider these Petrus. I only consider methods completely different to be a variant, such as Petrus-W (ZZ EO, L5EP)
 
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Two times this thread has been brought back from the dead now, every time when I thought it was gone for good :)
My definition of Petrus is 2x2x2, 2x2x3, EO, F2L, LL. But there can be extensions. Just like with CFOP, you have XCross, Psuedoslotting, WV, etc. I recognise 2x2x3 done in anyway to be pretty much Petrus, for example. If we want to be fast with Petrus, we have to not limit ourselves in blockbuilding. So we can’t limit ourselves in steps. Do 2x2x3 at once. EO during F2L. Influence EO while doing 2x2x3. I all consider these Petrus. I only consider methods completely different to be a variant, such as Petrus-W (ZZ EO, L5EP)
Do you consider LEOR as a variant of Petrus? More precisely the variant LEOR-b?

LEOR-b:

  1. Solve a 2x2x2 in DBL
  2. Solve the FL pair
  3. EODF (EOStripe but only with the DF edge)
  4. Right block
  5. ZBLL
 
Do you consider LEOR as a variant of Petrus? More precisely the variant LEOR-b?

LEOR-b:

  1. Solve a 2x2x2 in DBL
  2. Solve the FL pair
  3. EODF (EOStripe but only with the DF edge)
  4. Right block
  5. ZBLL
The main LEOR wouldn’t be a Petrus variant imo, but LEOR-b is close enough with the general idea of building a 2x2x2 then a pair and doing EO while finishing the 2x2x3, then finishing the right block.
It’s pretty much Petrus but with 2x2x3 and EO combined
 
The main LEOR wouldn’t be a Petrus variant imo, but LEOR-b is close enough with the general idea of building a 2x2x2 then a pair and doing EO while finishing the 2x2x3, then finishing the right block.
It’s pretty much Petrus but with 2x2x3 and EO combined
I wanted to know your opinion, because you are the most frequent user of Petrus, along with @ObscureCuber , your opinion is the same as mine. I think LEOR-b is quite similar to Petrus.
 
I wanted to know your opinion, because you are the most frequent user of Petrus, along with @ObscureCuber , your opinion is the same as mine. I think LEOR-b is quite similar to Petrus.
ehm.. it gets rid of a big pro of petrus, which is algorithmic EO, AND gets rid of a big pro of leor (eo in inspection),. so im guessing its just worse than both? i'd say if I were to pick another simular variant instead it would be natulis(eo+zbll) variant as it still has algorithmic eo but has better ergo than petrus (while being a bit less efficient)
 
ehm.. it gets rid of a big pro of petrus, which is algorithmic EO, AND gets rid of a big pro of leor (eo in inspection),. so im guessing its just worse than both? i'd say if I were to pick another simular variant instead it would be natulis(eo+zbll) variant as it still has algorithmic eo but has better ergo than petrus (while being a bit less efficient)
Thanks for your opinion, helps me a lot to understand some things. About the Nautilus method I know very little, I only know that you should build a 1x2x3 block on the left and a 2x2x2 block on the right, but I don't have much information on how to continue.
LEOR-b is a pretty situational thing. It's definitely useful to have as a thing, but should be used like EOLine for ZZ or non-linear blocks for Roux.
LEOR is a new method for me, I learned it three days ago and will continue to practice with it, to have a better understanding of how it works. Your information is very useful to me, thank you.
Anyway, my main method will still be Petrus.
Petrus is not dead. :cool:
 
Thanks for your opinion, helps me a lot to understand some things. About the Nautilus method I know very little, I only know that you should build a 1x2x3 block on the left and a 2x2x2 block on the right, but I don't have much information on how to continue.

LEOR is a new method for me, I learned it three days ago and will continue to practice with it, to have a better understanding of how it works. Your information is very useful to me, thank you.
Anyway, my main method will still be Petrus.
Petrus is not dead. :cool:
great to have more petrus users (=
anyway, you should check out nautilus and I'd recommend you use nautilus-A(this is an unofficial name i've given it(the zbll variant)
than it is very much like an inbetween of leor-petrus
while starting with a (leor) like FB, you still have algorithmic eo like petrus.
there are multiple approaches to EO if you want to get into it I would recommend-
FB(1x2x3)((on left) SB(2x2x2)((on right))
EO(only 11 algs) found here-
last square(you can start off by doing this by inserting edge, and doing f2l pair(or the opposite) but later can learn some of these f2l algs:
*(I'd recommend the ones with 1x1x2 solved first)* but you can be sub-13 without any of these algs
than last layer which can be done however (usually ocll,pll or ZBLL)
 
great to have more petrus users (=
anyway, you should check out nautilus and I'd recommend you use nautilus-A(this is an unofficial name i've given it(the zbll variant)
than it is very much like an inbetween of leor-petrus
while starting with a (leor) like FB, you still have algorithmic eo like petrus.
there are multiple approaches to EO if you want to get into it I would recommend-
FB(1x2x3)((on left) SB(2x2x2)((on right))
EO(only 11 algs) found here-
last square(you can start off by doing this by inserting edge, and doing f2l pair(or the opposite) but later can learn some of these f2l algs:
*(I'd recommend the ones with 1x1x2 solved first)* but you can be sub-13 without any of these algs
than last layer which can be done however (usually ocll,pll or ZBLL)
Oh how much information !!! Thank you. It will be very useful to learn the Nautilus Method, I was really lost, I did not know how to continue, but this helps me a lot :) :cool:
 
I think the reason for the decline of petrus can be attributed to a few things: CFOP was online earlier, so all our cubing ancestors used CFOP and they taught the next dynasty. Also, ZZ is similar to CFOP so it has an easier transition. Roux has the advertising point of few algs, for people fed up with CFOP, and there are very fast Roux users.
2 things: publicity and an advertising point.
Petrus has few moves, but Roux tends to be easier to get few moves on. Petrus has few algs, but it can't live up to learning 493 ZBLLs. Lars Petrus stopped seriously cubing when cubing became a thing again, and as the only fast user at the time, it couldn't be spread. As a result, people have to rely on first finding the method at all, second finding it before they get too comfortable with another method, and they have to see if it gives them a real benefit at all, and beginners tend to be impatient on that front. The lack of world class petrus users may be the main cause of its lack of popularity. When I was a new cuber, I remember searching things like "what cube does feliks use" because I wanted to mimic the best.
Hopefully there is a world class user of petrus. That would make the cubing community more open to other ideas and new ways to solve the cube.
 
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I think the reason for the decline of petrus can be attributed to a few things: CFOP was online earlier, so all our cubing ancestors used CFOP and they taught the next dynasty. Also, ZZ is similar to CFOP so it has an easier transition. Roux has the advertising point of few algs, for people fed up with CFOP, and there are very fast Roux users.​
2 things: publicity and an advertising point.​
Petrus has few moves, but Roux tends to be easier to get few moves on. Petrus has few algs, but it can't live up to learning 493 ZBLLs. Lars Petrus stopped seriously cubing when cubing became a thing again, and as the only fast user at the time, it couldn't be spread. As a result, people have to rely on first finding the method at all, second finding it before they get too comfortable with another method, and they have to see if it gives them a real benefit at all, and beginners tend to be impatient on that front. The lack of world class petrus users may be the main cause of its lack of popularity. When I was a new cuber, I remember searching things like "what cube does feliks use" because I wanted to mimic the best.​
Hopefully there is a world class user of petrus. That would make the cubing community more open to other ideas and new ways to solve the cube.​
​
​
I think the vast majority, if not all, are looking for the "faster" method, so they are looking for which method is used by Max Park, Feliks Zemdegs, Leo Borromeo, Tymon and others. They discover that everyone uses CFOP and they decide to learn that method, because they want to be faster. That has led to very few people choosing to use other types of methods, even Roux, which is a method that in my opinion is at the level of CFOP or maybe more, has few users compared to CFOP users.​
Petrus is not exempt from this.​
In my case, however, I was looking for more efficient methods, there was a time when I was learning CFOP, I managed to learn full PLL and about half of OLL cases but it did not convince me, I did not feel comfortable and I started to learn new methods, Corners First, Columns first, Waterman, Petrus, Roux and more. Many of them seemed interesting to me, but with Petrus I found that you need to have ingenuity to build blocks, you need to acquire a spatial vision of the cube, the same happens with methods like Roux or Heise. That is why many do not choose both Roux and Petrus, they prefer to use CFOP, which is a pure and practically mechanical method of memorization, rather than intuitive assembly. The blocks in Petrus and Roux must be assembled intuitively, develop spatial vision, and be creative.​
In addition, other factors must be taken into account, methods such as Petrus, Roux, ZZ or Heise require less movements, in the case of some of them less memorization, and are more efficient in FMC, this is also something that interests me a lot, not just speed resolution.​
 
I think the vast majority, if not all, are looking for the "faster" method, so they are looking for which method is used by Max Park, Feliks Zemdegs, Leo Borromeo, Tymon and others. They discover that everyone uses CFOP and they decide to learn that method, because they want to be faster. That has led to very few people choosing to use other types of methods, even Roux, which is a method that in my opinion is at the level of CFOP or maybe more, has few users compared to CFOP users.​
Petrus is not exempt from this.​
In my case, however, I was looking for more efficient methods, there was a time when I was learning CFOP, I managed to learn full PLL and about half of OLL cases but it did not convince me, I did not feel comfortable and I started to learn new methods, Corners First, Columns first, Waterman, Petrus, Roux and more. Many of them seemed interesting to me, but with Petrus I found that you need to have ingenuity to build blocks, you need to acquire a spatial vision of the cube, the same happens with methods like Roux or Heise. That is why many do not choose both Roux and Petrus, they prefer to use CFOP, which is a pure and practically mechanical method of memorization, rather than intuitive assembly. The blocks in Petrus and Roux must be assembled intuitively, develop spatial vision, and be creative.​
In addition, other factors must be taken into account, methods such as Petrus, Roux, ZZ or Heise require less movements, in the case of some of them less memorization, and are more efficient in FMC, this is also something that interests me a lot, not just speed resolution.​


I've always thought this way about blockbuilding, its just hard to explain to anyone that doesn't cube or even that does but uses a non-blockbuilding method.
you learn to understand the cube beyond most people do, atleast in this aspect and it really feels like you have gained a skill through pure intuition and effort.
understanding roux and petrus blockbuilding and being effective at both imo means you can basically be good with any type of blockbuilding, this makes using any method alot easier to get used to as you can take block concepts and apply> it to this other method.
there is an (p)infinite amount of blockbuilding cases possible but they can all be simplified into another for finding an efficient solution.
I guess "spatial awareness" of the cube is always how i've put it
 
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