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The method debate thread

Well by that logic we should use room-size computers from the early 60's since our modern ones are rip offs
your right.. Didnt think about that.

anyway the maker of ZZ wanted to make cfop better, by making sure that you dont have to rotate at ZZ at all, it made it worse for TH, but for OH it is pretty amazing since you dont have to rotate, and rotating in OH takes time.

Disclaimer: 100% my opinion, based on almost no facts.

3x3: CFOP = Roux > ZZ
OH: Roux > ZZ > CFOP
4x4: Yau > Hoya
5x5: Yau5 > Redux > Yau
Pyraminx: L4E > Top-First
i completely agree except i think ZZ is better than roux in OH, and roux is the same with Cfop, maybe a bit better.
 
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vandenbergh has easier lookahead and is algorithmic, lin is more efficient and has more blockbuilding
Lin is actually less efficient than Vandenburgh ( unless you use PLL+1 in which case it should be as efficient ) and ( Lin ) has better lookahead ( imo but I've never really used Vandenburgh. I seems with Lin tracing pieces is much easier ).
 
Lin is actually less efficient than Vandenburgh ( unless you use PLL+1 in which case it should be as efficient ) and ( Lin ) has better lookahead ( imo but I've never really used Vandenburgh. I seems with Lin tracing pieces is much easier ).
interesting, I always thought lin was more efficient and had worse lookahead

BTW Yau5 is worse than Yau for 5x5
 
interesting, I always thought lin was more efficient and had worse lookahead
I used to think the same about efficiency, drawing parallels to 3x3 where blockbuilding is almost always more efficient, but Vandenburgh algorithms are just more optimized than Lin blockbuilding. You'd have to ask @Sub1Hour about lookahead because I'm not entirely sure but with Lin it's really easy to trace pieces for FB making it almost free after cubeshape and SB isn't really that bad. In general with Lin you're not tracing nearly as many pieces between steps, where in Vandenburgh you need to trace 8 pieces for EO, EP, and CP respectively ( obviously not all pieces but definitely more than Lin ).
 
The Facts:

For TH, first of all, CFOP was invented before ZZ, and the methods are very similar with the block building and LL, so ZZ is just copying CFOP. Second of all, the facts are that the current WR, and many before that were set using CFOP, so obviously the facts are that CFOP > ZZ.
As everyone has pointed out, this is flawed logic.

The point of ZZ wasn't for an improved CFOP, the point of ZZ is to reduce the cube. <RULDBF> to <RUL> to <RU>. Unfortunately, reduction to <RU> is pretty difficult to do, especially mid solve, as well as bad recog, so instead you settle with reduction to <RUL> for F2L. So it isn't copying CFOP.

Get to 2017, ZZ isn't doing great, so people start optimising blocks for TH by using EOCross, not to copy CFOP, but because it happens to be the fastest way of doing blocks normally (unless you get good blockbuilding solutions). In CFOP, people have been doing XCrosses for a while, not to copy Petrus, but because it is faster. Remember, in ZZ you orientate all the edges - that's a significant thing to do, so not very copying.

Now, let's look at the amount of improvement with each method.

CFOP has been around for ~40 years (give and take), ZZ ~15. The fastest CFOP solvers after 15 years were not sub 8. Therefore, due to the rate of improvement, ZZ is better. 'Bad logic' I hear you cry. I agree. The thing is, stats outside the method itself are pretty useless as there are so many factors outside of the method that they dominate. Instead, I would recommend you check this post out. Read it and give good consideration to the argument, then decide what you think about ZZ properly.
 
interesting, I always thought lin was more efficient and had worse lookahead
The algorithmic nature of Vandenburgh makes it super easy to look ahead if you know what your algs do to each piece. Theoretically after doing CO you wouldn’t have to look at the cube again if you knew what pieces would go where during your algs for the last 3 steps
 
This might be controversial... but I think these are the best methods for the events I do. (I use the methods that are bolded)
2x2: EG > CLL
3x3: CFOP = Roux > ZZ
4x4: Yau > Redux
5x5: Yau = Redux > Yau5
3x3 OH: Roux > CFOP = ZZ (I'm planning on switching to Roux)
3x3 BLD: 3-style > M2/OP > OP/OP
Megaminx: Westlund = Yu Da-hyun > Balint
Pyraminx: L4E = top-first methods
Skewb: Sarah's advanced > Sarah's intermediate > Sarah's beginner
Square-1: Vandenbergh = Lin

edit: Some of my opinions have changed
 
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This might be controversial... but I think these are the best methods for the events I do.
2x2 (i use CLL): EG
3x3 (i use CFOP): CFOP = Roux < ZZ
4x4 (i use Yau): Yau < Redux
5x5 (i use Yau): Yau = Redux < Yau5
3x3 OH (i use CFOP): CFOP = Roux = ZZ
3x3 BLD (i use M2/OP): 3-style
Megaminx (i use Westlund): Westlund = Yu Da-Hyun < Balint
Pyraminx (i use L4E): L4E = Top-first methods
Skewb (i use intermediate): Sarah's advanced
Square-1 (i use Vandenbergh): Vandenbergh = Lin
this is mainly pretty standard but for OH roux is definitely better and ~probably(opinion) better than ZZ, most people agree on this.
 
how is roux equal to cfop in oh
lmao
Roux might actually be better than CFOP for OH. It's insanely efficient, and efficiency is arguably the most important thing for OH. Have you ever seen a Roux OH solver? Kian is almost sub 10 OH with Roux.
 
Roux might actually be better than CFOP for OH. It's insanely efficient, and efficiency is arguably the most important thing for OH. Have you ever seen a Roux OH solver? Kian is almost sub 10 OH with Roux.
its not might,it is
if quarantine wasnt happening the records for OH would be being set by roux solvers rn
 
Roux might actually be better than CFOP for OH. It's insanely efficient, and efficiency is arguably the most important thing for OH. Have you ever seen a Roux OH solver? Kian is almost sub 10 OH with Roux.
I meant that roux is way better than cfop for oh.
You saying that cfop=roux is stupid because roux is way better
 
I use Ortega/lbl on 2x2, on 3x3 cfop, on 4x4 and 5x5 i use yau, NOT YAU5, and on 6x6 and 7x7 I use Hoya. Does anyone think I should change one of the methods?
On 2x2 if you are willing to learn algs, CLL or even full EG would be better than ortega/lbl. Other than that I think redux is best on 7x7, but you could use either yau or redux on 6x6
 
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