The method debate thread

[Deleted member 55877]

I think the main methods for 3x3 are CFOP and Roux. Of course there are many other methods (ZZ, Petrus, etc.) all which might even be equal to CFOP/Roux, but for sake of simplicity I made this post so that it's only CFOP and Roux.

Spoiler: CFOP

Pros:
- Excellent lookahead
- Mostly 2-gen (RU)
- Little thinking is required
- High TPS because of the previous points
Cons:
- Inefficient
- Rotations
- Primarily alg-based, which can get boring

Spoiler: Roux

Pros:
- Efficient
- Intuitive
- Very few algs needed
- Rotationless (but rotations can be used if desired)
Cons:
- Lookahead is harder
- More thinking
- MU moves are slower than RU

Personally I think:
CFOP = Roux for 3x3
CFOP < Roux for OH
CFOP > Roux for big cubes

 

[Scollier]

I don't think I will engage in this debate because I will be destroyed for my logic

 

[2018AMSB02]

Well, as more people use CFOP than Roux, there have been more developments in CFOP, things like multislotting and countless tutorials on all things CFOP. We haven’t seen that as much with roux because less people use it. So I think that currently CFOP is better (for standard 3x3), but if you are talking about potential for the method I would say they are equal or even give roux the advantage

 

[Deleted member 55877]

On 2x2 if you are willing to learn algs, CLL or even full EG would be better than ortega/lbl. Other than that I think redux is best on 7x7, but you could use either yau or redux on 6x6

I think Redux > Yau for 6x6 too
Don't take my opinion seriously though, I don't really do 6x6.

 

[abunickabhi]

I have been method neutral since 2018, using both CFOP and Roux in my official 3x3 and OH solves. I am global 10 seconds with both the methods.

 

[ZB2op]

My thoughts on all the NxNs
2x2: EG. No debate here
3x3: CFOP. Roux isn't far off
4x4: Yau. No debate here
5x5-7x7: Redux. On 5x5 Yau isn't much worse but 6x6 and 7x7 there is no debate.

 

[DNF_Cuber]

5x5-7x7: Redux. On 5x5 Yau isn't much worse but 6x6 and 7x7 there is no debate.

I don't know about that, Ciaran Beahan uses yau on big cubes and he is extremely fast.

 

[ZB2op]

I don't know about that, Ciaran Beahan uses yau on big cubes and he is extremely fast.

But then there's Max Park.

 

[Deleted member 55877]

I don't know about that, Ciaran Beahan uses yau on big cubes and he is extremely fast.

6x6 and 7x7 Yau i think could be equal to redux, but it's extremely annoying to do yau on 6x6+ because the centers are difficult and having to preserve cross edges makes it a nightmare

 

[Eamon]

i use yau for all big cubes

 

[ZB2op]

Pros:
- Excellent lookahead
- Mostly 2-gen (RU)

It's not mostly 2 gen because f2l is RUL gen and LL is RUF or RUL

MU moves are slower than RU

If your point here is that Roux has slow turning, the best roux solvers can easily get well over 10 tps on LSE which is the bit that is all MU.

All other points are valid.

 

[the dnf master]

Well there isn't exactly a beginner's variation for roux, so it would be a lot harder to learn

 

[MJS Cubing]

There’s already a method debate thread for things like this.

 

[MJS Cubing]

Well there isn't exactly a beginner's variation for roux, so it would be a lot harder to learn

There isn’t many algs in Roux though. Not that I’m advocating for Roux, because beginners method is a lot easier to learn than CFOP or Roux. However, I think the reason most people use CFOP is because once you learn the beginners method, it is not really different. Intuitive f2l+4lll=like 10 or 20 algs, so it’s not too hard to start CFOP from beginners. Roux from beginners is a whole new method, and therefore is harder to learn. Also, M moves are not really finger tricks you would expect a beginner to know.

 

[U_Turn_Cuber]

What I like so much about Roux is that the only few limitations that you have sre just the steps. For example you can go ahead and do the first edge of the second block than the first pair of the first block insert the first edge of the first block and so one. The only algs that you need is 2x2 OLL and a J and Y Perm. So the most important skill that you have to learn before you can get deeply into Roux is understanding how the cube works and after that it's really easy.

 

[Garf]

CFOP. Useful for Yau on big cubes, such as 4x4, 5x5, etc.

 

[BenChristman1]

@DNF_Cuber I figured I could move it to this thread, so that we don’t clog the other one.

and people say this is more efficient than roux

I don’t think it’s more efficient, I think it’s about 5-10 moves more, but some people (including myself) suck at blockbuilding. I think it can be around 45 moves with ZBLL (which is obviously ideal).

 

[DNF_Cuber]

@DNF_Cuber I figured I could move it to this thread, so that we don’t clog the other one.

I don’t think it’s more efficient, I think it’s about 5-10 moves more, but some people (including myself) suck at blockbuilding. I think it can be around 45 moves with ZBLL (which is obviously ideal).

Yeah, I find Roux blockbuilding way easier, plus with beginner alg load roux L10p is way easier than petrus LL movecount wise

 

[Nir1213]

wait if roux is better than cfop in oh then why is cfop used in oh WR?? doesnt make sense

im not saying cfop is better than roux its totally the other way

 

[Eamon]

wait if roux is better than cfop in oh then why is cfop used in oh WR?? doesnt make sense

im not saying cfop is better than roux its totally the other way

kian doesn't practice OH anymore