[Help Thread] ZZ and ZB Discussion

[supercavitation]

Andy Huang finally got his sub-10 average with a 9.78 in the second round of Slow n Steady Winter this past weekend, and then followed it with a 9.99 average in the semi-final.
http://cubecomps.com/live.php?cid=1348&compid=17

Fun fact: A while back, Keaton predicted that Andy would get a sub-10 average, then a 10 flat. At the comp, when Andy did the math on his 9.99, he came up with 10.00 (different rounding convention), which resulted in some amusing celebration.

 

[4Chan]

hay zz guiz

I've been wondering this for like, over a year now:
Is there a particularly elegant way to orient 4 edges when they're in UF UB and DF DB? Or alternately UL UR and DF DB?

I've always taken Phil's advice and did a Y rotation previously.

 

[shadowslice e]

hay zz guiz

I've been wondering this for like, over a year now:
Is there a particularly elegant way to orient 4 edges when they're in UF UB and DF DB? Or alternately UL UR and DF DB?

I've always taken Phil's advice and did a Y rotation previously.

For UL UR DF DB I may do something like F2 D2 M' U M when I do ZZ cause using LSE style EO can be quite nice sometimes.

 

[4Chan]

I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but F2 D2 M' isn't a very elegant combination of moves.


Also, does anyone know an elegant way to orient all 4 bad edges on top, E-slice, and bottom?
Those are all cases that I do a Y rotation for as well.

 

[shadowslice e]

I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but F2 D2 M' isn't a very elegant combination of moves.

Yeah I know but I find it quite fast because I go left/right/left/right/left for all of the moves so it's pretty quick (probably because roux helps). You could also do full LSE style and do M U2 M' U2 M' U M.

For all on the e-slice I have no good options really.

Top and bottom is still MU ish for me. Probably something like M' U2 M U2 M' U M for the case on top.

 

[Teoidus]

Anyone have tips for keeping track of 6-flip cases (e.g. after flipping 3/forcing 1 edge to be bad and forcing it to be a 4flip, being able to know where all those edges are and collecting them)? finding that those are especially annoying for me.

 

[AlphaSheep]

Anyone have tips for keeping track of 6-flip cases (e.g. after flipping 3/forcing 1 edge to be bad and forcing it to be a 4flip, being able to know where all those edges are and collecting them)? finding that those are especially annoying for me.

In inspection, visualise the moves that will bring 3 bad edges to one face, and think about how the remaining pieces will be affected. Often, I'll do the first few moves in such away that I minimise the movement of the other 3 edges. Once I know the first couple of moves, I forget those first 3 edges and look at where the one good edge that will become bad will land up. Choose the direction of the F/F'/B/B' that gives the easier 4 edge case. For me, most of the 4 bad edge cases are pretty much algorithmic by now.

In summary, I plan 2-3 moves, pick I direction for the orientation turn, and predict the 4 edge case.

6 bad edges are so common, you'll find you get plenty of opportunity to practice.

 

[Teoidus]

Okay, thanks! I suppose I should get really familiar with 4 edge cases too, so I can execute them while tracking line pieces/potential F2L blocks?

 

[AlphaSheep]

Yes. The earlier you start tracking the line edges, the better. Pretty much every solve eventually reduces to a 4 edge case, so with enough practice you'll get very familiar with them all. You'll also start to learn which cases you prefer and you'll be able choose to set up to those cases when you have 6 or more bad edges.

 

[Teoidus]

Is it normal to not have line edges solved by the time all edges are oriented? Sometimes I try and affect line edges during EO but can only get them so that they are about 2-3 moves away when EO is done.

 

[Lazy Einstein]

Does anybody have an online document or anything for disorienting the corners for the variant ZZ-Bleh?

 

[Egide]

Here are the algorithms l found when l explored ZZ-blah
Case 1
Case 5

Hope these help.

 

[Lazy Einstein]

Here are the algorithms l found when l explored ZZ-blah
Case 1
Case 5

Hope these help.

Appreciated. If I get algs for all the cases I will add to algdb.net eventually. I am focusing on finishing ZZ-a in full right now though. (Started in the middle of Feb hoping to be done before May the latest). Also film more averages =P

 

[Egide]

Appreciated. If I get algs for all the cases I will add to algdb.net eventually. I am focusing on finishing ZZ-a in full right now though. (Started in the middle of Feb hoping to be done before May the latest). Also film more averages =P

Good luck on ZZ-a (it was getting kind of lonely). l'm thinking of new ways to switch it up on the channel so l might do more averages

 

[PurpleBanana]

Good luck on ZZ-a (it was getting kind of lonely). l'm thinking of new ways to switch it up on the channel so l might do more averages

I've watched a couple videos on your channel and your accomplishment in mastering such a huge alg set is enviable. How long did it take you to learn those 493 algorithms and what order did you do it in?

 

[Egide]

I've watched a couple videos on your channel and your accomplishment in mastering such a huge alg set is enviable. How long did it take you to learn those 493 algorithms and what order did you do it in?

Thanks, it took me about 3 months of serious memorizing (l refreined from doing solves for 2 and a half months, l only used the cube to review the algs). l learned them as following H, Pi, T, U, L Sune and then Anti-sune, but in hindsight l think what Lazy Einstein is doing is better (learning sune and Anti-sune earlier because they need more practice).

 

[Bindedsa]

Thanks, it took me about 3 months of serious memorizing (l refreined from doing solves for 2 and a half months, l only used the cube to review the algs). l learned them as following H, Pi, T, U, L Sune and then Anti-sune, but in hindsight l think what Lazy Einstein is doing is better (learning sune and Anti-sune earlier because they need more practice).

I don't know if that's the best way to do it, Why not practice recognizing the ZBLLs in solves? Either way learning the whole thing in 3 months is impressive, I don't think I could ever stop solving for that long, I just learnt them randomly when ever I felt like it.

 

[PurpleBanana]

Thanks, it took me about 3 months of serious memorizing (l refreined from doing solves for 2 and a half months, l only used the cube to review the algs). l learned them as following H, Pi, T, U, L Sune and then Anti-sune, but in hindsight l think what Lazy Einstein is doing is better (learning sune and Anti-sune earlier because they need more practice).

So you learned them at a pace of 5 or 6 a day for an extended period of time and managed to retain them all. That's quite impressive. You must either have spent many hours a day practicing or have an exceptional memory.
Why do sune and antisune need more practice? Are the algs longer or more awkward or something?

 

[Egide]

I don't know if that's the best way to do it, Why not practice recognizing the ZBLLs in solves? Either way learning the whole thing in 3 months is impressive, I don't think I could ever stop solving for that long, I just learnt them randomly when ever I felt like it.

l didn't like recognizing in solves because it took a long time (scramble+solving just to train one alg) and frankly l was annoyed with cases l didn't know coming up and forcing me to use another method.

So you learned them at a pace of 5 or 6 a day for an extended period of time and managed to retain them all. That's quite impressive. You must either have spent many hours a day practicing or have an exceptional memory.
Why do sune and antisune need more practice? Are the algs longer or more awkward or something?

actually neither, l just reviewed them daily and when l didn't have a cube at hand l used the Anki app. sometimes l learned a lot in a week because the set was easy and had similar algorithms so l can't say for sure how many l was memorizing per day or week. Sune And Anti-sune need more practice mainly because there's only one oriented corner and too many stickers to look at while doing recognition.the algorithms for them are among the fastest so that's not an issue (sub 1.5s for all but 6 cases, so pretty fast for me)

 

[PurpleBanana]

Sune And Anti-sune need more practice mainly because there's only one oriented corner and too many stickers to look at while doing recognition.the algorithms for them are among the fastest so that's not an issue (sub 1.5s for all but 6 cases, so pretty fast for me)

Interesting. So what set would you say is easiest to learn, other than H with its smaller number of cases?