[Help Thread] ZZ and ZB Discussion

[DizzypheasantZZ]

Do you use F moves in your solves and are they useful?

 

[theROUXbiksCube]

for me its more efficient in certain cases so why not

 

[mDiPalma]

Do you use F moves in your solves and are they useful?

yes and yes

other acceptable responses:

Spoiler

no and yes

 

[adimare]

I'd do R U R' U R to break the orange-blue pair up, then U L' U' L to insert.

Cool

I would either use what AlphaSheep suggested or U R U' R' U2 R L' U L

Cooler
Tho mine's 8 moves too if you omit the R' and leave the back-right slot open like your alg does.

U R' F2 R F2
Think outside the box brah.

Coolest
I struggle with F moves so I'm gonna try to execute that by doing something like l' U2 R U2 x', that way it also works on the back without having to do B moves: r' U2 L U2 x

Thanks everyone!

 

[theROUXbiksCube]

That's good for me ;D and my OH style

 

[supercavitation]

Did you read my post when you quoted it?

Yes. That was more hopeful than anything else.

 

[4Chan]

Has x-axis neutrality been fully discussed?

For example, after the first 2x2x3 on either L or R is finished, if I see an easy block that will extend to U, I just do either X or X' and go from there.

I honestly think this has great potential for reducing move count and doubles the probability for good cases (since instead of just one option, you get two) and I'll be practicing this from now on.

 

[mDiPalma]

Has z-axis neutrality been fully discussed?

For example, after the first 2x2x3 on either L or R is finished, if I see an easy block that will extend to U, I just do either Z or Z' and go from there.

I honestly think this has great potential for reducing move count and doubles the probability for good cases (since instead of just one option, you get two) and I'll be practicing this from now on.

ftfy

 

[4Chan]

I also just realised that those same Z and Z' rotations after orientation allow for EOLines to be created on any face accessible with the Z and Z'.

I'm pretty sure this will allow for really good EOLines, has that aspect been discussed as well?
I honestly think this form of colour neutrality can really improve ZZ.

 

[irontwig]

Has x-axis neutrality been fully discussed?

For example, after the first 2x2x3 on either L or R is finished, if I see an easy block that will extend to U, I just do either X or X' and go from there.

I honestly think this has great potential for reducing move count and doubles the probability for good cases (since instead of just one option, you get two) and I'll be practicing this from now on.

I think you're about a third of a century late to the party.

 

[theROUXbiksCube]

This seems really cool but my recogniton sucks on anything not white/yellow

 

[Z0chary]

When should I use keyhole in ZZF2L? Inserting corners, edges, or both? I feel it is useful at times, but there might be faster algs I can use.

 

[TDM]

When should I use keyhole in ZZF2L? Inserting corners, edges, or both? I feel it is useful at times, but there might be faster algs I can use.

I find it easier for edges, since corners sometimes take a few moves to orient and then insert. You also don't have the problem you have in CFOP where you could accidentally insert edge flipped. However, I think it's useful for corners too, if the corner is on the U layer.

 

[IAmAPerson]

Do any of you guys have a fallback method in case of an "OH CRAP moment" in ZZ? Often, if I mess up EOLine badly enough, I'll switch over immediately to CFOP and continue the solve like that (often using VHLS to keep my ZZ-style LL going). I'll also use CFOP if I, in inspection, miscount bad edges (odd number) or can't figure out EOLine. It's very nice to have a fallback method like that instead of panicking and trying to reorient edges mid-solve.

 

[TDM]

Do any of you guys have a fallback method in case of an "OH CRAP moment" in ZZ? Often, if I mess up EOLine badly enough, I'll switch over immediately to CFOP and continue the solve like that (often using VHLS to keep my ZZ-style LL going). I'll also use CFOP if I, in inspection, miscount bad edges (odd number) or can't figure out EOLine. It's very nice to have a fallback method like that instead of panicking and trying to reorient edges mid-solve.

If something goes wrong with EO, I usually correct EO and then continue with ZZ. If I can't see EO in inspection I'll just orient as many edges as I can and then track the others.

 

[Petro Leum]

Do any of you guys have a fallback method in case of an "OH CRAP moment" in ZZ? Often, if I mess up EOLine badly enough, I'll switch over immediately to CFOP and continue the solve like that (often using VHLS to keep my ZZ-style LL going). I'll also use CFOP if I, in inspection, miscount bad edges (odd number) or can't figure out EOLine. It's very nice to have a fallback method like that instead of panicking and trying to reorient edges mid-solve.

if you find some cases particularly bad, you might wanna consider learning a second oriantation, but honestly - it cant be THAT bad. 12/12 wrong edges is a one in a million appearance, and then you can just dnf and cry

 

[adimare]

12/12 isn't that terrible for me. At least 8 of them are already in the F and B faces so you can just do F and B' simultaneously and bring it down to 4 (then something like U R D U' L U F' to get all edges oriented). The scrambles that kill me are when there are 8 bad edges and a bunch of them are in the S layer and you can't avoid removing bad edges from the B face while placing 4 in the F face (or vice versa), I still have trouble coming up with a full EO line for those cases in under 15 sec because of all the pieces you have to keep track of. (ie: D' B R2 B2 D2 R' D2 F U2 L2 F2 L2 U L2 U R2 D L2 U' D B2)

 

[TDM]

The scrambles that kill me are when there are 8 bad edges and a bunch of them are in the S layer and you can't avoid removing bad edges from the B face while placing 4 in the F face (or vice versa), I still have trouble coming up with a full EO line for those cases in under 15 sec because of all the pieces you have to keep track of. (ie: D' B R2 B2 D2 R' D2 F U2 L2 F2 L2 U L2 U R2 D L2 U' D B2)

This is where being y-neutral helps!

x2 y // Inspection
// only four bad edges, so to put them on the F face from here is U' L U D2. This also (coincidentally) preserves your line pieces in UL and UR, which can be seen easily in inspection. So the EOLine can be solved with:
U' L U D2 F(') L2 R2 D // EOLine

One rotation during inspection can make some EOLine so much easier. I would definitely suggest switching to y-neutral.

 

[IAmAPerson]

Luckily, I'm y-neutral. It's impossible for me to get >8 bad edges. If I have more than 8, just do a y rotation! Done. I didn't know that being y-neutral wasn't common?

 

[guysensei1]

Luckily, I am y-neutral. It's impossible for me to get >8 bad edges. If I have more than 8, just do a y rotation! Done. I didn't know that being y-neutral wasn't common?

Unless all edges were flipped in place.