Random Cubing Discussion

PEDs

I'm not posting this in the WCA regulations forum because obviously nothing will be done about it. Nothing CAN be done about it. The WCA is in no position to start drug testing.

But what's the policy on performance enhancing drugs? Even common medications can work as that. I guarantee Adderall would make some people solve faster. In particular, I think bigBLD or MBLD memo would go much faster on a stimulant used to treat ADHD.

If somebody wants to use them, the community is powerless to stop them. But I'm interested in hearing ideas on what people *should* do.
 
martinss said:
Puzzles as 1x1x1, 3x3x3, 5x5x5, 7x7x7, 9x9x9, 11x11x11... don't need to have internal pieces, except the core (3D cross). But some 3x3x3s have removable torpedoes. My Rubik's brand 4x4x4 don't have internal pieces : it's a ball with some holes (instead of the core). But most of Even layered puzzles are Odd layered puzzles with some hidden pieces.
Click to expand...

Actually if you made some fancy elaborate mechanism for a big cube I'm sure you could make it have internal pieces.
 
cmhardw said:
Are there any adjacent states that are both optimally solved in 20 turns (HTM)? So for example, I have a state that is optimally solved in 20 moves HTM, I perform one turn in HTM and the new state is also optimally solved in 20 moves HTM?
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Rockicki answered this a while ago, and out of all the 20f* positions he had, most were not adjacent to any other, but there were a substantial number that were adjacent to another one in his list, and the largest 'cluster' of 20f* positions was 8.
Link to that info and some further details (scroll down to the comments): http://cubezzz.dyndns.org/drupal/?q=node/view/523

IRNjuggle28 said:
But what's the policy on performance enhancing drugs? Even common medications can work as that. I guarantee Adderall would make some people solve faster. In particular, I think bigBLD or MBLD memo would go much faster on a stimulant used to treat ADHD.

If somebody wants to use them, the community is powerless to stop them. But I'm interested in hearing ideas on what people *should* do.
Click to expand...
The official policy is "there is no penalty". I think I would say, just don't do anything unsafe... cubing's not worth health risks.
 
qqwref said:
The official policy is "there is no penalty". I think I would say, just don't do anything unsafe... cubing's not worth health risks.
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I never had any doubt that there was no official penalty. And I wasn't asking because I'm interested in trying it. Not my style. I consider using stimulants specifically to get better times in competition cheating without a question. I'm not convinced using drugs to enhance performance (in any sport) is "wrong," but I definitely think doing so in competition would be wrong. Just my opinion. My question wasn't "can people do it," it was "should people do it."

I was more wondering about the gray areas of competing. What about people who have a prescription for ADHD medication, and are supposed to take it every day? They aren't using it to get better times, but they are given an unequal advantage. They can't be asked to not take their usual meds on comp day, though.

Sidenote: If I ever wind up taking an ADHD med that's a stimulant again, I would keep my PBs set while on that medication separate from off it. Getting to where you can't break a PB without an (addictive) medication is a slippery slope, and the difference between doing a mentally challenging task on Adderall versus off it is unbelievable.

I'm kind of curious if Maskow does this. He mentioned "taking 30 pills a day to improve memory," and while the implication of what he said is a bit different than the situation I'm anticipating... you never know.
 
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It's an extremely grey area, though. Sure, something like Ritalin can improve concentration and memory, but I'm sure there are some foods that also have effects on those things, even if not to the same degree. Is there really a difference between a nutritional chemical, and a pharmaceutical chemical, if they have the same effect, just to different degrees? But if someone could take vitamin supplements to improve their mental ability, they can also eat certain foods to do that too. Then should we regulate cubers' diets to prevent this kind of thing? I think it's hard to draw the line between what's OK and what isn't, and honestly, there seems to be no "magic bullet", like steroids in weightlifting, that would provide an unreasonably large advantage in cubing.

It seems like chess has grappled with this kind of thing too. There have been some drug tests in the past decade or two but many players (even very good ones who pass the tests) think they are a bad idea. Chess is far more mental than normal cubing, but when you compare it to FMC...
 
qqwref said:
It's an extremely grey area, though. Sure, something like Ritalin can improve concentration and memory, but I'm sure there are some foods that also have effects on those things, even if not to the same degree. Is there really a difference between a nutritional chemical, and a pharmaceutical chemical, if they have the same effect, just to different degrees? But if someone could take vitamin supplements to improve their mental ability, they can also eat certain foods to do that too. Then should we regulate cubers' diets to prevent this kind of thing?
Click to expand...
Usually, the line is thought to fall somewhere between something that's at least quasi-natural and something that obviously isn't. Healthy diet is thought of as natural; medications are not. If you look at the semantics of what "nature" really is, I'm sure the definition of natural I'm using isn't accurate, but I think the point gets across... Society definitely has a bias against manmade supplements versus pseudo-natural ones. The manmade ones usually turn out to have more (easily traceable) negative side effects than the "natural" ones. For example, Adderall increases heart rate, blood pressure, anxiety, and is quite addictive.That's not as much the case with altering your diet. You're definitely right that there's not an obvious place to draw the line, but regulating diet is obviously past it and PEDs aren't. That's what I think the difference between nutritional and pharmaceutical chemicals is. The problem is not so much their primary function as their risk of side effects or of user error. Pharmaceuticals are usually more damaging, and it's much easier to be irresponsible with them.

qqwref said:
There seems to be no "magic bullet", like steroids in weightlifting, that would provide an unreasonably large advantage in cubing.
Click to expand...
Yep. I'm not so worried about what would happen right now as I am the potential slippery slope if people did ever discover something that worked really well for cubing. We don't want competitions where you have to use a drug to be world class. But, I might as well just hold on to these thoughts and only revisit them if it becomes a problem. The fact that cubing isn't a professional sport means people are much less likely to cheat in ways that are damaging to them.
 
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I know I am a noob but what if the buffer and the corner that gets that buffer's corner get solved both. I mean i know the corner that gets that buffer's corner get solved but what if the buffer get solved too????
 
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