[Help Thread] ZZ and ZB Discussion

[aznanimedude]

for me, i've just done it enough to where i can pretty easily once i find 4 edges (or 2 if there's only 2) and then quickly figure out a way to move them all, once i've got that sequence of moves in my head, it's the same with more edges.

Also the majority of the time you'll only have 4 or 6 edges so getting comfortable with those and you are actually for the most part going to be just fine. With 4 it's straight forward, with 6 when you're starting out you'll probably more often than not handle it 4+2, instead of 3(+1) + 4, i.e. orient 4 edges and then orient remaining 2, rather than orient 3, misorient 1 at the same time, then orient 4 remaining bad edges.

For 8, it's basically just an extension of 4, so what you do is just figure out your first 4, then do it while tracking/predicting where the last 4 edges end up. 10 is kinda weird, but honestly i never really consciously keep track of when i have 10 edges, but pretty sure i usually end up doing it 4+4+2, unless i have an epiphany and then do it 4+3+3. 12 you thank your lucky stars because then it's just simultaneous F/B turns, and then 4 remaining edges.

tl;dr, takes practice, takes time, but if you try you'll get it

also boo EOCross, suck it up and learn to blockbuild, the sooner you do, the sooner you can take advantage of the efficiency and ergonimics of the ZZ method

 

[irontwig]

For 8, it's basically just an extension of 4, so what you do is just figure out your first 4, then do it while tracking/predicting where the last 4 edges end up.

Another approach is putting the good edges in the S-slice and then EO.

 

[aznanimedude]

and this is why i still no amazing at ZZ QQ

 

[mDiPalma]

12 you thank your lucky stars because then it's just simultaneous F/B turns, and then 4 remaining edges.

Lol, or you can just DNF. I usually have 1 DNF in my ao100 because of stupid 12.


inb4 "oya pl0x, i herd there's a logarithm to apply for liek 12 bad edjes; oar somthing"

yano, I'm not part of that system.

 

[aznanimedude]

i take 12 bad edges like a man bro bro

 

[TDM]

for me, i've just done it enough to where i can pretty easily once i find 4 edges (or 2 if there's only 2) and then quickly figure out a way to move them all, once i've got that sequence of moves in my head, it's the same with more edges.

So what you're saying is plan the first 4 you see, and then look for more? The problem with that is that I'll probably run out of inspection time. I'll then have to look for more after I've done 4, which makes the solve slow and interrupted. Also, it's not the orienting part which I have difficulty with, it's knowing which ones to orient without having to constantly look around.

takes practice, takes time, but if you try you'll get it

Time but I'll practice.

also boo EOCross, suck it up and learn to blockbuild, the sooner you do, the sooner you can take advantage of the efficiency and ergonimics of the ZZ method

Too much to learn D: I'll try getting EO done well first probably, and then move on to blockbuilding. I guess it can't be that much more difficult than F2L with practice.

 

[mDiPalma]

lol, what logarithm do you do to fix 12?

F B' (aw yiz 2 moevs at once like a baws, this is supergut)
U L' R (ok just put those three in real quick like)
B2 D2 (insert last edge like a G6)
...F (cool done with eo)
now where the %&*# are my line pieces?

naw man i'll stick with:
[spacebar]
[spacebar]
[spacebar]
[click dnf]
[apply next scramble]

 

[BaMiao]

lol, what logarithm do you do to fix 12?

F B' (aw yiz 2 moevs at once like a baws, this is supergut)
U L' R (ok just put those three in real quick like)
B2 D2 (insert last edge like a G6)
...F (cool done with eo)
now where the %&*# are my line pieces?

naw man i'll stick with:
[spacebar]
[spacebar]
[spacebar]
[click dnf]
[apply next scramble]

I personally like:

F B' R' D F' R2 U' F

Anyway, at one point, I was thinking of joining the "race to sub-20" thread, and the first scramble had 12 bad edges.

"Well, not gonna be sub-20 today!"

 

[a small kitten]

This is why you guys need to learn red front.

In all seriousness, I think you should get used to at least 2 different front colors to minimize bad EO lines. It helps a lot.

 

[mDiPalma]

This is why you guys need to learn red front.

ORANGE is better.

Spoiler

I recorded my first attempt to immortalize the inevitable fail.

 

[TDM]

I just tried orange front. I'd prefer red, but I have a really bad cube and all the faces are uneven, and I can do algorithms fastest with orange F and yellow U. I had done 60 ZZ solves before I tried this, and my average was 49.27. I was using green front (my next fastest option and the fastest I had that used the same colours for EO as in most tutorials). I then tried an Ao12 with orange front and got 47.81! After the first (over 1 minute) solve, I found EO easy, and all solves except two were under 50s. The last layer was so much faster as I could turn the sides easier. Because my cube is weird like that.

 

[mDiPalma]

hey guys, i got a totally awesome and completely legit 4.41 single:

4.41

legit scramble pl0x:
R2 F2 R U2 R' U2 R' U2 F2 R2 F' U R B U B' R'

z' [inspection]
F [pink eoline]
z [see blocks, switch to black eoline]
4(RUR'U') [improvise for 16 more moves]
R' U2 R U R' U2 L U' R U L' [J-perm]

 

[KongShou]

hey guys, i got a totally awesome and completely legit 4.41 single:

Really? That's amazing! I got the same single too today! It's was a super easy triple x cross and jperm! Decided to switch cross half way through! Can't believe it! Such an coincidence!

 

[Athefre]

lol, what logarithm do you do to fix 12?

Easy - F U R D B L' F

 

[TDM]

lol, what logarithm do you do to fix 12?

F B' (aw yiz 2 moevs at once like a baws, this is supergut)
U L' R (ok just put those three in real quick like)
B2 D2 (insert last edge like a G6)
...F (cool done with eo)
now where the %&*# are my line pieces?

I asked if there was an algorithm that kept all edge pieces in place and oriented them, which would help you know where the line pieces are. But it's quite long: 14 moves. You'd probably be better learning Athefre's F U R D B L' F which is half the length.

 

[Pyjam]

Just put DF and DB are at the right place with R, L, U, D moves, then apply F U R D B L' F.

 

[ryn ball]

I tried Yellow top Orange front as my solving orientation as I observed I can make block/pair C&E easy than blue front yellow top (my orientation when I started ZZ). Maybe on the color issue that my eyes easily track orange/red pairs/block but I have longer times detecting EOs due to the fact I was looking for green/blue edges w/c is a slow process for me. And maybe a little more practice . What are your solving orientation guys?

 

[mDiPalma]

What are your solving orientation guys?

Most people solve in YB. I solve in WG.


On another note, how do you guys feel about this last slot/last layer approach:

Somewhere during ZZF2L, insert a pair with a misoriented corner.
After F2L is complete, rotate to bring that corner to DFR.
Apply an algorithm that fixes the orientation of the corner while permuting the corners of the last layer.
Apply 1-look 2GLL.

There would only be 6 algs in total. (Adjacent, diagonal, & no swap for the top corners multiplied by 2 possible DFR orientations.)

But two of these cases would have solved CP. Therefore, the "algs" would be the standard F2L solving approach for a misoriented F2L corner. One could learn CLS for these cases to force EPLLs.

So 4 new algs + super simple cp recognition + simplified ZZF2L + 1-look 2GLL = awesome variant


The only problem is: I can't generate the algs because I can't get Acube3 to work, and I don't think Cube Explorer is of any help.

Can someone generate the algs for these 4 cases? RUD and RUL are preferred movegroups, but I'm game for anything.

Thanks so much! Any input is greatly appreciated!

 

[irontwig]

The only problem is: I can't generate the algs because I can't get Acube3 to work, and I don't think Cube Explorer is of any help.

Try Ctrl+Click and Shift+Click

 

[BaMiao]

On another note, how do you guys feel about this last slot/last layer approach:

Somewhere during ZZF2L, insert a pair with a misoriented corner.
After F2L is complete, rotate to bring that corner to DFR.
Apply an algorithm that fixes the orientation of the corner while permuting the corners of the last layer.
Apply 1-look 2GLL.

There would only be 6 algs in total. (Adjacent, diagonal, & no swap for the top corners multiplied by 2 possible DFR orientations.)

But two of these cases would have solved CP. Therefore, the "algs" would be the standard F2L solving approach for a misoriented F2L corner. One could learn CLS for these cases to force EPLLs.

So 4 new algs + super simple cp recognition + simplified ZZF2L + 1-look 2GLL = awesome variant


The only problem is: I can't generate the algs because I can't get Acube3 to work, and I don't think Cube Explorer is of any help.

Can someone generate the algs for these 4 cases? RUD and RUL are preferred movegroups, but I'm game for anything.

Thanks so much! Any input is greatly appreciated!

I think this is what you're looking for:

http://f2l.net46.net/index.html

Edit: algs are under the CPLS section