mDiPalma
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When you said your eoline was 6-7, I thought you meant MOVES. Then I read that your LL was also 6-7.
You should be able to do eoline+1 in around 3-4. Just track line edges.
[Help Thread] ZZ and ZB Discussion
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When you said your eoline was 6-7, I thought you meant MOVES. Then I read that your LL was also 6-7.
You should be able to do eoline+1 in around 3-4. Just track line edges.
TheNextFeliks
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aznanimedude
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Super guilty as charged lol
Edit:
for funsies, ima see how much i like combining ZZ-rainbow + phasing after CP step, although dunno how good that's gonna be because now i'm adding in a few extra looks. 1/2 the 2GLLs but at the expense of more recognition time
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speedcuber50
Regular
Migration to ZZ
Hi!
I've gotten the times down to around 30 seconds using F2L and a three stage LL (edge orientation, corner orientation, edge/corner permutation). I don't use fingertricks at all.
So... I may have some lube coming soon, so it's about time I learnt some fingertricks, is it not
? And so I've started looking into the ZZ method.
Having tried it a few times, I have found that it does indeed acheive its intended purpose-to improve turn ergonomics, and it's not too different to the F2L method for adjustment.
But still, my times are about a minute using this method, and it's mostly due to the edge orientation stage. So how quickly can I expect that to drop, and how can I improve my edge orientation? I'm battling to remember all the edges at once, so spend about 20 seconds of my actual solve time hunting up and down for bad edges (and then I miss half of them LOL
).
What do you think?
speedcuber50
Hi!
I've gotten the times down to around 30 seconds using F2L and a three stage LL (edge orientation, corner orientation, edge/corner permutation). I don't use fingertricks at all.
So... I may have some lube coming soon, so it's about time I learnt some fingertricks, is it not
? And so I've started looking into the ZZ method.Having tried it a few times, I have found that it does indeed acheive its intended purpose-to improve turn ergonomics, and it's not too different to the F2L method for adjustment.
But still, my times are about a minute using this method, and it's mostly due to the edge orientation stage. So how quickly can I expect that to drop, and how can I improve my edge orientation? I'm battling to remember all the edges at once, so spend about 20 seconds of my actual solve time hunting up and down for bad edges (and then I miss half of them LOL
).What do you think?
speedcuber50
TheNextFeliks
Veteran
Here is a speedsolving (what I would do in normal solve) example:
R' F2 R2 F2 R' F2 R' U2 R B2 R2 B R U B2 L2 R2 F' D R2
x2 [6 bad] F' U' R' D2 B' R' L2 D [8/8]
R' U2 R U R' U2 L U2 L [9/17]
R' U R' U2 R U R' U2 R2 [9/26]
R' U R U' L U L' [7/33]
R' U2 R U2 R' U R [7/40]
LL: pi oll [9/49]
N perm [21/70]
LL was very inefficient.
Bad solve will do one more. Any critique?
One more:
U2 F2 L2 B' L2 B L2 B2 U2 B' D2 R B' L' U F' D B2 R2 B2 L2
x2 (8 bad) U2 D' R' F B' R' L2 D' [8/8]
U' R' U R U' R' U' R [8/16]
U L2 U L' R U2 L U L [9/25]
U L U L' R U' R' [7/32]
L U' L' U L U2 L' U L U' L' [11/43]
U' T ocll [9/52]
T-perm [14/66]
Felt better about F2L.
Critique on either?
R' F2 R2 F2 R' F2 R' U2 R B2 R2 B R U B2 L2 R2 F' D R2
x2 [6 bad] F' U' R' D2 B' R' L2 D [8/8]
R' U2 R U R' U2 L U2 L [9/17]
R' U R' U2 R U R' U2 R2 [9/26]
R' U R U' L U L' [7/33]
R' U2 R U2 R' U R [7/40]
LL: pi oll [9/49]
N perm [21/70]
LL was very inefficient.
Bad solve will do one more. Any critique?
One more:
U2 F2 L2 B' L2 B L2 B2 U2 B' D2 R B' L' U F' D B2 R2 B2 L2
x2 (8 bad) U2 D' R' F B' R' L2 D' [8/8]
U' R' U R U' R' U' R [8/16]
U L2 U L' R U2 L U L [9/25]
U L U L' R U' R' [7/32]
L U' L' U L U2 L' U L U' L' [11/43]
U' T ocll [9/52]
T-perm [14/66]
Felt better about F2L.
Critique on either?
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aznanimedude
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R' F2 R2 F2 R' F2 R' U2 R B2 R2 B R U B2 L2 R2 F' D R2
x2 L2 F U F R F' D' R D' // EOLine 9,9
L' U2 L U L' U L U2 L2 R' U R2 U' L' // LEFT 14,23
R2 U R U' R2 U R U' R2 U' R U2 R' U R //RIGHT (and lol-skip) 15,39
U2 R' U R U' R2 F' U' F U R F R' F' R2 // F-PERM 15,54
View at alg.garron.us
that's how i'd probably solve it in a speedsolve
also 21 move N-perm? what?
x2 L2 F U F R F' D' R D' // EOLine 9,9
L' U2 L U L' U L U2 L2 R' U R2 U' L' // LEFT 14,23
R2 U R U' R2 U R U' R2 U' R U2 R' U R //RIGHT (and lol-skip) 15,39
U2 R' U R U' R2 F' U' F U R F R' F' R2 // F-PERM 15,54
View at alg.garron.us
that's how i'd probably solve it in a speedsolve
also 21 move N-perm? what?
TheNextFeliks
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Nice. My n perm is R U R' U (J perm) U' R U' R'. I got an a perm btw. Still oll skip but a perm.
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aznanimedude
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for your second scramble:
U2 F2 L2 B' L2 B L2 B2 U2 B' D2 R B' L' U F' D B2 R2 B2 L2
x2 R' B' U' D R' F' D2 R2 D' // EOLINE 9,9
U2 R U2 R U2 L U L2 U L' U' L // LEFT 12,21
R2 U' R' U2 R U R2 U R' U2 R U' R' U R U' R' // RIGHT 17,38
U' L' U R U' L U R' // COLL 8,46
R2 U' R' U' R U R U R U' R U' // A-PERM 12,58
View at alg.garron.us
ew my second block was ugly xD, but nice COLL
U2 F2 L2 B' L2 B L2 B2 U2 B' D2 R B' L' U F' D B2 R2 B2 L2
x2 R' B' U' D R' F' D2 R2 D' // EOLINE 9,9
U2 R U2 R U2 L U L2 U L' U' L // LEFT 12,21
R2 U' R' U2 R U R2 U R' U2 R U' R' U R U' R' // RIGHT 17,38
U' L' U R U' L U R' // COLL 8,46
R2 U' R' U' R U R U R U' R U' // A-PERM 12,58
View at alg.garron.us
ew my second block was ugly xD, but nice COLL
TheOneOnTheLeft
tOOtl
Is it normal to solve F2L as two separate sides, one then the other? I've always just solved whatever I noticed when doing ZZ. Maybe it's a holdover from CFOP.
cubingawsumness
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Whatever looks good is the way to go.
YddEd
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Yeah, edge orientation is VERY hard.(Especially tracking) After a week, I got enough of the edge orientation and went on to learn Roux. I've used it for 3 days and I went from 1 minute to 45 secondsHi!
I've gotten the times down to around 30 seconds using F2L and a three stage LL (edge orientation, corner orientation, edge/corner permutation). I don't use fingertricks at all.
So... I may have some lube coming soon, so it's about time I learnt some fingertricks, is it not
Having tried it a few times, I have found that it does indeed acheive its intended purpose-to improve turn ergonomics, and it's not too different to the F2L method for adjustment.
But still, my times are about a minute using this method, and it's mostly due to the edge orientation stage. So how quickly can I expect that to drop, and how can I improve my edge orientation? I'm battling to remember all the edges at once, so spend about 20 seconds of my actual solve time hunting up and down for bad edges (and then I miss half of them LOL
What do you think?
speedcuber50
My CFOP avg is around 25.aznanimedude
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i actually do whatever, just so happened in those solves i saw both pairs for one side. I do have a tendancy to favor solving for one side completely before going to the next since i'm focused on those colors anyway.
I think of it this way. When you start the F2L for one side, you should hav already detected the 3 edges that make up your 1x2x2 block on one side, that just leaves 2 more edges you have to find. If instead i try to form a 1x2x2 block on the other side, that's 3 pieces i have to find, not 2, so should make sence to pick the next step that takes the least amount of effort to find the pieces and execute. Although there are cases where doing a block on the other side is immediately apparent and easy to do. Basically, do whatever you see and you think is the easiest to do at the moment
also:
Hi!
I've gotten the times down to around 30 seconds using F2L and a three stage LL (edge orientation, corner orientation, edge/corner permutation). I don't use fingertricks at all.
So... I may have some lube coming soon, so it's about time I learnt some fingertricks, is it not
Having tried it a few times, I have found that it does indeed acheive its intended purpose-to improve turn ergonomics, and it's not too different to the F2L method for adjustment.
But still, my times are about a minute using this method, and it's mostly due to the edge orientation stage. So how quickly can I expect that to drop, and how can I improve my edge orientation? I'm battling to remember all the edges at once, so spend about 20 seconds of my actual solve time hunting up and down for bad edges (and then I miss half of them LOL
What do you think?
speedcuber50
edge orientation + line is the reason ZZ unfortunately has a somewhat steep learning curve. Not that it's "hard" per se, but that it's a whole different monster than the cross. But once you get down edge orientation the solve becomes pretty fun to do. Piece of advice i can give you is, take as much inspection time as you can, don't even worry about the 15 second standard inspection time, take a minute of you have to, and make sure you have found every single edge, and make a mental note of how many there are.
So say for example, i found 6 bad edges, so i'll note that down. Then i pick 4 of them (don't worry too much about the most efficient EO step, since you're just learning it) and move them to F or B face, and then do a F/B turn to orient those edges. I just oriented 4 edges, so logically, there should only be 2 left then, so i'll look around, recheck the bad edges and make sure i only have 2 left, if i have more, i did something wrong in my edge orientation step, or i miscounted at the beginning.
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speedcuber50
Regular
I agree. That's what I've found as well, and it is indeed really ergonomic!!!
That's what I've been doing as well.
TheNextFeliks
Veteran
Can you give some general f2l tips? I avg like 27. My ll is 6-7. Eoline is 5-7 depending how well I inspect. So like 15 sec f2l.
mDiPalma
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Finish one block (left or right) before you start the other, unless you see a really efficient alternate solution. It will generally be the same amount of moves, but it will be much more ergonomic.
Leave F2L slots in an OPEN state such that you can effectively "cancel" 1-2 moves in the future.
TheNextFeliks
Veteran
I'll try that with the one block before the other. I usually do simultaneously. I think it would be better. Do you mean like not doing an R'. So then you can do U' R' with the R canceling?
uvafan
Veteran
TheNextFeliks
Veteran
I'll watch when I have time. So after school.
ryn ball
Regular
Me too I usually do simultaneously. And if I solved my front-right block I usually slide it down to back-right block (R' move) as well as my left-front block (L move) so that the BR slot is open to slide my BR+BRD pair and also to avoid blindspot slot at the back just in case a f2l pcs was stuck there. I will watch this also after my work
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TDM
Legend
I think I could be switching over to ZZ soon. I can't do EO that fast, but the F2L is so much better than in CFOP. I can recognise which edges need to be oriented in the 15 seconds, but I can't really plan how to orient them well in the time given. I usually spend up to 15 seconds at the beginning of the solve getting the EO line completed because of this. I'm also really bad at building blocks, which is why I do EO cross not EO line and then do normal F2L but without rotations. I was just interested in how you guys track misoriented pieces during EO. I can't keep my fingers on 8 pieces whilst attempting to move four of them onto a side, and I don't like having to check twice to see which pieces are misoriented. So how do you track which pieces are where? And I've heard practising Cross BLD is good for CFOP; is doing EO without looking helpful?
