[Help Thread] ZZ and ZB Discussion

[aznanimedude]

you can't because once you learn COLLs, you'll never look at say a Pi case as just that, you'll take that extra look to detect your COLL corner case

 

[YddEd]

How do you track pieces while doing the orientation of the edges? I'm finding it hard to do.

 

[ottozing]

you can't because once you learn COLLs, you'll never look at say a Pi case as just that, you'll take that extra look to detect your COLL corner case

Not necessarily. I can recognize CP for all of my OLL's almost as soon as I recognize the OLL, but I rarely try to force a CP skip (Although I often force non diagonal CP). Maybe that's just from heaps of practice I guess

 

[ryn ball]

Thanks for the input guys about LL approach, unfortunately I was sick at EOlines and F2l so I will alot more time here and maybe study COLL-EPLL but today OCLL-PLL as my LL, btw some of my PLL algs are bad cuz sometimes it hurts my finger tricks, do you have good PLL algs guys? I mean all the 21 PLL good algs.
Thanks in advance!

 

[aznanimedude]

Not necessarily. I can recognize CP for all of my OLL's almost as soon as I recognize the OLL, but I rarely try to force a CP skip (Although I often force non diagonal CP). Maybe that's just from heaps of practice I guess

maybe, i can do it, but only if i decide before i even start solving that i'll just do a regular OCLL and not COLL, otherwise i'm looking and i'm like MUST...DOOOO...COLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

also @YddEd - takes a bit of time, go slow, stick fingers on the edges when you're starting if you have to. And keep a count, and each time you do a F/B turn, there should be 4 less edges, so count again, make sure there's 4 less now, and it'll even give you a chance to see if you remember where the other bad edges were if there are any left.

@ryn ball - Provide the PLL and the algorithm you're using, helps more than just asking for good PLLs

 

[ryn ball]

thanks for the help aznanimedude if I have time I will paste it here but I compared the algs I used to some cubers/top cubers they are relatively/exactly the same and maybe I wasnt good at my fingertricks in certain PLLs. I have question about ZZ-d I saw some algs for LL in a ZZ-d section on BOCA site and even in stachu site how do we set up the cube in ZZ-d? I know we solve the left block leaving 6 corners uncorrected I was curious about the algs on it I wasnt see any of those algs (maybe I was dumb searching). Or maybe a scramble to illustrate some ZZ-d solves. Thanks in advance.

 

[cubingawsumness]

thanks for the help aznanimedude if I have time I will paste it here but I compared the algs I used to some cubers/top cubers they are relatively/exactly the same and maybe I wasnt good at my fingertricks in certain PLLs.

Well what is good for them is not necessarily good for you. I suggest looking in the SS wiki for a large list of algs for each case, and choosing one that suits your fingertricks. If you just can't find any, look on youtube since many people show their fingertricks that you might not have figured out for yourself. Good luck with ZZ!

 

[aznanimedude]

thanks for the help aznanimedude if I have time I will paste it here but I compared the algs I used to some cubers/top cubers they are relatively/exactly the same and maybe I wasnt good at my fingertricks in certain PLLs. I have question about ZZ-d I saw some algs for LL in a ZZ-d section on BOCA site and even in stachu site how do we set up the cube in ZZ-d? I know we solve the left block leaving 6 corners uncorrected I was curious about the algs on it I wasnt see any of those algs (maybe I was dumb searching). Or maybe a scramble to illustrate some ZZ-d solves. Thanks in advance.

there are no algorithms for doing it because unfortunately the ZZ-d as described by Mr. ZZ himself, cannot feasibly be done at the moment. There's no algorithms currently for it out because there's this holy grail called the "missing link", a way to easily detect corner permutation and fix it after left block, and it hasn't been found. It's possible to do it, but not in a way that is feasible for speedsolving, i.e. detect and execute efficiently.

There are other "attempts" at doing it, the most notable recent one was porkynator's ZZ-rainbow, which does CP between first and second block, but also has some extra moves before doing CP, which is not quite full on ZZ-d because ZZ-d is an alg to finish first block AND CP. So if you're really interested in trying to do solves ZZ-d esque, ZZ-rainbow is probably your best bet

 

[YddEd]

Should I learn the Winter Variation for LL?

 

[mDiPalma]

Should I learn the Winter Variation for LL?

yes

 

[YddEd]

yes

Is it fast? Like can I get sub 20 quickly?

 

[mDiPalma]

Is it fast? Like can I get sub 20 quickly?

not all final f2l inserts end with a pair into RU'R'

thus you won't be able to use WV for all cases.

additionally, you have to know each of the 27 algs from 4 different angles.

WV will not make you sub 20. but if you can take away a few helpful algs for the easy cases, you may be able to force OLL skips more frequently.

 

[YddEd]

not all final f2l inserts end with a pair into RU'R'

thus you won't be able to use WV for all cases.

additionally, you have to know each of the 27 algs from 4 different angles.

WV will not make you sub 20. but if you can take away a few helpful algs for the easy cases, you may be able to force OLL skips more frequently.

Well is there any other way I can use to get sub 20?

 

[Username]

Well is there any other way I can use to get sub 20?

Practicing

 

[YddEd]

Practicing

Sorry, I meant LL method.
I'm still practicing my EO Line so I was just planning what to learn for LL since I haven't finished learning OLL and PLL.

 

[BaMiao]

Sorry, I meant LL method.
I'm still practicing my EO Line so I was just planning what to learn for LL since I haven't finished learning OLL and PLL.

Any decent LL method (OLL+PLL, COLL+EPLL, etc) can get you to sub 20 if your F2L is fast enough. If you just want to get to sub 20, just learn OLL and PLL and practice F2L. If you feel like learning more algs, go ahead- it's up to you.

 

[YddEd]

Any decent LL method (OLL+PLL, COLL+EPLL, etc) can get you to sub 20 if your F2L is fast enough. If you just want to get to sub 20, just learn OLL and PLL and practice F2L. If you feel like learning more algs, go ahead- it's up to you.

Ah, but since I haven't finished learning OLL/PLL I will go learn another LL method.

 

[BaMiao]

Ah, but since I haven't finished learning OLL/PLL I will go learn another LL method.

I would recommend learning OLL/PLL first before working on any other LL methods. Alg sets like winter variation and CLS are just ways of getting OLL skips, so you'd need PLL anyway. COLL/EPLL uses more algs, so I'd say OLL/PLL is the easiest two-look method for ZZ.

 

[YddEd]

I would recommend learning OLL/PLL first before working on any other LL methods. Alg sets like winter variation and CLS are just ways of getting OLL skips, so you'd need PLL anyway. COLL/EPLL uses more algs, so I'd say OLL/PLL is the easiest two-look method for ZZ.

IMO OLL/PLL are boring now.

 

[Pyjam]

yes [you should learn the Winter Variation for LL]

You do not recommend COLL but you recommend Winter Variation !!!

I'm more than surprised. I'm shocked.