[Help Thread] ZZ and ZB Discussion

[cubingawsumness]

Start at 1:00. I explain it with visuals. It's very difficult to explain in writing.

that's not what he means.

he means the bad edges in UR and UL are a horizontal pair and can slide into the vertical pair of bad edges at UF and DF with L R'

Ah I see. Thank you for your explanations.
Now for this whole month I'm going to a lot of ZZ. By the end of this month and year, my goal is to be sub 30. I think this is possible with a lot more EOLine solving.
I am still unsure if I will switch for good, but we'll see soon. Wish me luck!

 

[blokpoi]

what he basically means is, when you do an F turn, the horizontal edges become the vertical ones, and vice versa

and yeah efficiency-wise doing 6 edges as 3->1->3 is actually more so than 4+2, but 4+2 makes more sense when you start off

edit:



GOOD LUCK =D, what LL do you do? OCLL -> PLL? COLL? full blown ZZLL/ZBLL, the fabled legendary ZZ-D -> 2GLL?

I have been doing OLL (only 7 cases since LLE is oriented) and PLL mostly because I changed from fridrich so I had already learned full PLL.

Should I do something else that is more efficient?

 

[pepkin88]

Regarding breakdowns, I have average sub 20, but that isn't pure ZZ. I'm in the process of switching to blockbuilding, but I still have better times when I do EOCross.
Would my breakdowns be helpful?

 

[uvafan]

I have been doing OLL (only 7 cases since LLE is oriented) and PLL mostly because I changed from fridrich so I had already learned full PLL.

Should I do something else that is more efficient?

No. It's honestly not worth it to spend your time learning a better method than OCLL/PLL until you average like 12 seconds. OCLL/PLL can be very fast.

 

[mDiPalma]

Regarding breakdowns, I have average sub 20, but that isn't pure ZZ. I'm in the process of switching to blockbuilding, but I still have better times when I do EOCross.
Would my breakdowns be helpful?

finding your breakdowns would be helpful in that YOU could compare your splits with splits of experienced zz-ers, discovering any obvious regions for any relative improvement you might need.

 

[Petro Leum]

No. It's honestly not worth it to spend your time learning a better method than OCLL/PLL until you average like 12 seconds. OCLL/PLL can be very fast.

i disagree. the earlier, the better. you will regret it when youre like pretty fast and then a new algs set lowers your times at first.

 

[mDiPalma]

i disagree. the earlier, the better. you will regret it when youre like pretty fast and then a new algs set lowers your times at first.

lol nitpicking

but seriously, you should learn pi and h colls right off the bat.

 

[blokpoi]

Okay guys, thanks I will learn some COLLS

 

[TheNextFeliks]

Do you have some tips for large numbers of edges (>6)? I have a lot of trouble tracking these. 2 and 4 are really easy.

 

[mDiPalma]

Do you have some tips for large numbers of edges (>6)? I have a lot of trouble tracking these. 2 and 4 are really easy.

if 2 and 4 are "really easy", just do what you'd do for eo4 and eo2, followed by a line.

 

[ThomasJE]

Do you have some tips for large numbers of edges (>6)? I have a lot of trouble tracking these. 2 and 4 are really easy.

For 8, put the good edges at UL, UR, DL and DR. For 10, put the god edges at either UL and UR, or DL and DR. And 12 is easy. 6 is harder though, although I am working on a 'pseudo EO' that could make it easy. It won't be finished till at least the end of December though (with school and the 4220 marathon and such).

 

[oll+phase+sync]

... 6 is harder though, although I am working on a 'pseudo EO' that could make it easy.

Not knowing what pseudo EO exactly is, I'm courious why it should work better or worse with a fixed number of bad edges ?

 

[Petro Leum]

Do you have some tips for large numbers of edges (>6)? I have a lot of trouble tracking these. 2 and 4 are really easy.

dont track them. better plan out the first four edges and predict the last 4. just try it, its not as hard as it seems.

 

[ThomasJE]

Not knowing what pseudo EO exactly is, I'm courious why it should work better or worse with a fixed number of bad edges ?

6 un-oriented edges are hard to solve, and I think it could work better because it may provide better lookahead into F2L. But more information after Christmas.

 

[TheNextFeliks]

When do you suggest learning COLL? Early or when you get faster. I am currently about 40 avg.

 

[ZZer]

Hey Hey Hey... My question is: When you are constructing blocks, its going like:
1. random side 2x2x2 - then expand to 3x2x2 - then the other side
2. always the sam side 2x2x2 - then expand to 3x2x2 - then the other side
3. random 2x2x2 - then second side 2x2x2 - then 2 last slots
4. always the same side 2x2x2 - then second side 2x2x2 - then 2 last slots
5. freestyle - mix of all above
???

How should it looks like to achieve best results?

 

[mDiPalma]

When do you suggest learning COLL? Early or when you get faster. I am currently about 40 avg.

I don't understand why people seem obligated to switch to COLL+EPLL for zz2h. The thing you have to note is that most 2h plls are JUST AS FAST as 2h eplls (T, J, Y, A, G, etc vs U, H, Z; just watch pll time attack videos if you don't believe me). But while using COLL, you waste time recognizing the case, executing a longer and potentially awkward algorithm (relative to the OCLL case, where only the un-awkward algs are selected), and you don't really reap any significant benefit. There is little to no reason to feel obligated to learn COLL for zz2h. In zzoh, however, COLL is vastly more important, in my opinion, because the OH-EPLLs are much faster than the OH-PLLs.

If you really want to learn COLL for zz2h, learn the H and Pi cases only. They are relatively unawkward and easy to lookahead into, minimizing the sacrifice you make to force an EPLL. (my opinion)

source: I know coll, and most of my sub10s are regular sune/antisune+PLL.

Hey Hey Hey... My question is: When you are constructing blocks, its going like:
1. random side 2x2x2 - then expand to 3x2x2 - then the other side
2. always the sam side 2x2x2 - then expand to 3x2x2 - then the other side
3. random 2x2x2 - then second side 2x2x2 - then 2 last slots
4. always the same side 2x2x2 - then second side 2x2x2 - then 2 last slots
5. freestyle - mix of all above
???

How should it looks like to achieve best results?

Ask around. I do "freestyle."

 

[TheNextFeliks]

One more question for ZZers. What do you do for 4x4 and other big cubes.

 

[mDiPalma]

One more question for ZZers. What do you do for 4x4 and other big cubes.

I usually just keep them in the back of my drawer.

 

[TheNextFeliks]

I usually just keep them in the back of my drawer.

You keep your cubes in a drawer? That's cube abuse. I will confiscate them.