[Help Thread] ZZ and ZB Discussion

[uvafan]

1. It was not very difficult for me to switch, but then again, I did average 45 seconds...
2. Um...no. All F2L cases that have the edge oriented require only R, U, and L moves.
3. No.

 

[Rubiksboy1]

- After EO, you only need to use R, U and L moves. So, if I did the left block, and did the 1x2x2 block in the right, leaving one F2L slot, would I only get an R U R' insertion?

I can at least answer this one.
Perform R U' R' U2 R U2 R' U2 R U R' on a solved cube, just for example.
It matches your criteria, but is not an R U R'. This scramble also cycles through many non- R U R' F2L cases.

 

[JillianFraser]

When switching from CFOP to ZZ how long did it take you times to get back to where they were?
After a little less than a week I'm almost back down to my average, is this good?

 

[uvafan]

When switching from CFOP to ZZ how long did it take you times to get back to where they were?
After a little less than a week I'm almost back down to my average, is this good?

Yes. It took me approximately a week to average 45 with ZZ after I learned it, which is what I averaged when I switched.

 

[Petro Leum]

I'm thinking of switching to ZZ, but I have a few questions:

- I've known F2L for 8 months, and my PB's are in my sig (I usually average 22, with most PLL). So, would I find it difficult to switch (with different F2L, EO(+)Line)? Also, is it worth switching?
- After EO, you only need to use R, U and L moves. So, if I did the left block, and did the 1x2x2 block in the right, leaving one F2L slot, would I only get an R U R' insertion?
- If so, would you not need to learn Summer variation, and then learn WV, leaving you with a PLL?
- For you ZZ 4x4 solvers, do you use [WIKI]Z4[/WIKI]?

Thanks in advance.

If you have tried EOLine and you just dont get it, dont switch. if you find it amazing and it suits you, you wont regret switching. You CAN du Fridrich F2L, so EOLine + cross edges + RUL-Gern pair inserts, BUT i reccomend adapting real blockbuilding. that can be quite hard, though.
if oyu have done the left block, the right block will be all RU-Gen.
you will only get edge oriented OLLs, or you could do WV+PLL, but 2gen wv algs are useful.
or learn COLL
I had a look at Z4, but i foudn it not efficient, not intuitive and not lookahead friendly enough. i use a mix of YAU, freeslice edge pairing and z4 now, for all big cubes.

 

[aznanimedude]

The real hard part is learning good eoline. That takes some time and practice. Then good blockbuilding and just learning to accept pairing the corner with either the cross edge or normal Friedrich pair. Good luck though if you do decide to switch .

Also wv is nice but I much prefer COLL into EPLL

 

[ThomasJE]

The real hard part is learning good eoline. That takes some time and practice. Then good blockbuilding and just learning to accept pairing the corner with either the cross edge or normal Friedrich pair. Good luck though if you do decide to switch .

Also wv is nice but I much prefer COLL into EPLL

I'm focusing on EOLine, but I do EO+Cross, then do <R,U,L> F2L pairs. After then, I'll work on blockbuilding.

And I think I will switch, but if there's an easy CFOP scramble (easy X-cross, pairs made etc.), then I can have the knowledge of both methods.

Also, what's more efficient/faster: OCLL/PLL, COLL/EPLL or WV/PLL?

 

[aznanimedude]

I personally do coll because I hate to do y perms, and that way I can move on to zzll from there if I wanted.

Edit: I guess wv could be nice since you're forcing oll skip on insert I just don't like it for some reason lol

 

[uvafan]

I'm focusing on EOLine, but I do EO+Cross, then do <R,U,L> F2L pairs. After then, I'll work on blockbuilding.

And I think I will switch, but if there's an easy CFOP scramble (easy X-cross, pairs made etc.), then I can have the knowledge of both methods.

Also, what's more efficient/faster: OCLL/PLL, COLL/EPLL or WV/PLL?

OCLL/PLL is arguably just as fast as either of the others, and has easier recognition and less algorithms.

Therefore, I use mostly OCLL/PLL. I have learned the H and most of the Pi COLL cases though, since those OCLLs are slow and the COLLs are fast and recognition is easy.

 

[CubeRoots]

I'm focusing on EOLine, but I do EO+Cross, then do <R,U,L> F2L pairs. After then, I'll work on blockbuilding.

And I think I will switch, but if there's an easy CFOP scramble (easy X-cross, pairs made etc.), then I can have the knowledge of both methods.

Also, what's more efficient/faster: OCLL/PLL, COLL/EPLL or WV/PLL?

You should break that habbit of eocross asap, it is really not beneficial and wastes moves at the start. Get used to the fundamental ZZF2L blockbuilding techniques and use U and E slice edges to pair with the corners.

efficiency wise COLL/EPLL is better. I think that it is slightly faster than OCLL/PLL too. Main benefit is the abundant EPLL skips that occur.

WV is cool but I only recomend learning a couple of different cases, the shorter ones. Most are about equal to just doing OCLL, but some 5 or 7 movers are really neat

 

[aznanimedude]

Ocll is actually I think more quick recognition wise just because you've been doing it the whole time. But as mentioned , I like the occasional epll skips I get.

 

[Petro Leum]

COLL+EPLL all the way. also great for OH. COLL algs are also reeaaallly nice (i think nearly all of them are sub1able) and EPLL recognition and execution is nice as well. Plus you most probably already know many of the COLL algs, why not just learn the recognition as well?

 

[aznanimedude]

You'd definitely know at least 7 hahaha

 

[Petro Leum]

You'd definitely know at least 7 hahaha

and most probably some mirrors or alternatives. i knew like 20 of them when i started learning

 

[CubeRoots]

Almost finished learning COLL and i'm already noticing the difference. i think I am averaging 4.5 seconds for the last layer and I haven't even started drilling the algs yet. normally I average 5.5.

Also, I was wondering, who uses ZZ-b? and how does recognition work for ZZLL?

Also, i'm writing a 'How to get faster using the ZZ method guide' like the pcwhizcube one for CFOP. If anyone wants to see/add thingss pm me and I will send you the doc

 

[aznanimedude]

I don't think anyone does full I'm zz-b but I do know some people like Phil Yu know some of the zblls. I'm considering learnkng it soon, at least h and pi by the end of the year.
Recognition is like coll plus one edge sticker so I feel its not TOO much more to look at

Edit: also I'd like to take a look at your house out of curiosity

 

[Pyjam]

Mr. Z. Z. himself knows full ZBLL, I suppose.

 

[aznanimedude]

i dunno if he even uses ZB method lol, i remember hearing even when using ZZ he was doing ZZ-VH aka COLL-EPLL but....not 100% sure :|

 

[Matt S]

Since we're talking about CoLL, is there a consensus on learning the Sune / Anti-Sune CoLL cases for two-handed solvers who are comfortable with the non-EPLL PLLs? I'm particularly interested in the opinion of someone with a good PLL background who DID decide to use the CoLL cases, since I know that a lot (like me) haven't bothered really trying.

 

[aznanimedude]

i'm learning them but i am in the process of changing my recognition, since it sucks
i only really have 2 algorithms left to go, but recognition wise i'm hoping to not be so lazy in actually practicing it and get it down next week.

after that i'll practice some phasing and learn the H and Pi ZZLLs

general consensus though is that since Sune/A-Sune is so fast that on average Sune/A-Sune + PLL will be faster than COLL + EPLL for those cases, since recognition + execution is super low for OCLL compared to COLL