[Help Thread] ZZ and ZB Discussion

For as often as JTLE would be useful, I think that x' (U' D) R2 (U D') x + OCLL is pretty good. That alg can be done very fast, because you pull both the U and D faces simultaneously, and an x rotation is hardly worth mentioning (just a minor regrip).

Why not just M' U2 M?

Maybe because of this? [...]

Actually that was reply to Matt, his way of doing inserting the cross edge seems pretty silly to me.

I think it's probably faster than a Y rotation.
 
I think it's probably faster than a Y rotation.

Yep. It's the same alg, but I think my way of doing it is much more fluid. As I said originally, you simultaneously pull the U and D (or F and B, if you don't consider it an x' rotation), so it's very fast.
 
I think it's probably faster than a Y rotation.

Yep. It's the same alg, but I think my way of doing it is much more fluid. As I said originally, you simultaneously pull the U and D (or F and B, if you don't consider it an x' rotation), so it's very fast.

So you think a x and a x' is no problem, but a y is a big deal, what kind of logic is that? Besides, using the M slice'll make a better transition into LL.
 
If you prefer to perform the alg M U2 M', then do. Algs are meant to be personalized. Either way, I think you'll agree that it's very fast. That was my real point.

You make a good point about the M-slice version transitioning better to the LL. As often as not when I do the trick it's in the middle of the F2L (finishing the first 1x3x3 block), so I never really looked at it that way. I'm terrible at y rotations, while the x rotation I use is just a repositioning of the thumbs (hardly a rotation at all). If I committed to this strategy and thought of it as part of the LL transition rather than a blockbuilding trick, maybe I'd switch to using M.
 

forgive me for the EOCross on the 4th solve..

blockbuilding practice needed, EOLine to F2L transition needs improvement, EOLIne needs much improvement.

Even though I'm around 5 seconds slower than you at ZZ, I think you mostly need to work on making 2x1x1's that aren't F2L pairs. That's a pretty bad habit for most Fridrich converts. I just need to work on better EO lookahead and 2x1x1 pairing.
 
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If you prefer to perform the alg M U2 M', then do. Algs are meant to be personalized. Either way, I think you'll agree that it's very fast. That was my real point.

You make a good point about the M-slice version transitioning better to the LL. As often as not when I do the trick it's in the middle of the F2L (finishing the first 1x3x3 block), so I never really looked at it that way. I'm terrible at y rotations, while the x rotation I use is just a repositioning of the thumbs (hardly a rotation at all). If I committed to this strategy and thought of it as part of the LL transition rather than a blockbuilding trick, maybe I'd switch to using M.
you both fail miserably....

if your just going to do F2L then fix the DR edge then just solve like normal because your not taking advantage of JTLE.....

JTLE isnt meant to be done all the time, but when its useful do it...
 
you both fail miserably....
Nah, I probably do that trick 1/50 solves, just when I screw up or get lucky. My whole point is that I don't think it's useful enough often enough to justify learning the set of algs, especially since they aren't that much better than simply fixing the edge and doing OCLL.

At any rate, they don't suck, so I guess it's good for someone who wants a set of algs to learn.
 
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youtube vid

forgive me for the EOCross on the 4th solve..

blockbuilding practice needed, EOLine to F2L transition needs improvement, EOLIne needs much improvement.

Nice turning speed!

Some constructive criticism:

It looked like most of the solves were EO+Line, or certainly EOLine with a quick glance at the line. Planning and solving the line without looking is probably the best thing you can do to improve the EOLline-F2L transition.

Main other problem I see is pauses during F2L, mainly to look round the cube. Try working on your F2L lookahead, and getting used to finding everything just by looking at U,F,L and R. Being able to identify partially visible edges/corners will probably help you a great deal.

Hope this helps...
 
Thanks Conrad (if I can call you that :)) and justin (same here)!

@cride5 : Yeah, I'm trying to get use to EOLIne..

thanks for the feedback! (I've decided to do coracle for a bit) :)

You've improved and I haven't. It's my fault, but I'm really not motivated to practise 3x3x3

...but I like riding in wakes, I can steal their tips.

*Words of encouragement*

More waffles. But pancakes are better.
 
At your place I would practice you Lookahead and Blockbuilding. Especially your first block is aww....

@All: What is a normal Average for you? Actually I´m in getting sub 18, but somehow I sometimes have 18.xy either...
 
If anyone is still keeping track, you can add me to the list of ZZ users.

Is there anyone who's sub-15 with ZZ? Sub-12?
 
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There was a video of someone doing a sub-15 average somewhere in a past thread, but I haven't heard of anyone sub-12 with it.
 
Does anyone know if there is an efficient way to phase if you're using CFOP? Basically I'm wondering if there's any chance of using ZZLL with CFOP F2L. Looks like VH will orient edges, which would get me part of the way. Are there any F2LL methods that would phase as well?
 
I haven't heard of anything like that. I'd bet that orienting and phasing while solving the last ce-pair is just too much to be reasonable.
 
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