[Help Thread] ZZ and ZB Discussion

[iasimp1997]

You can count me in. Just switched, working on F2L. For some reason my ZZF2L requires cube rotations. I use EO+Line, no EOline. Help?

Do you use F or B moves while placing the line pieces?

Only F2 moves.

 

[Sir E Brum]

You can count me in. Just switched, working on F2L. For some reason my ZZF2L requires cube rotations. I use EO+Line, no EOline. Help?

Do you use F or B moves while placing the line pieces?

Only F2 moves.

Generate a scramble and then show us your moves for EOLine and F2L.

 

[iasimp1997]

You can count me in. Just switched, working on F2L. For some reason my ZZF2L requires cube rotations. I use EO+Line, no EOline. Help?

Do you use F or B moves while placing the line pieces?

Only F2 moves.

Generate a scramble and then show us your moves for EOLine and F2L.

scramble: D B' D2 L2 F B2 L' F' R' D2 U' F' U' B R2 D L' U' L D F R2 B U2 L2
Two misoriented on top, one on bottom, one in middle layer. 2+1+1=4.
L U' R' U F for EO
B2 U' F2 for line

I need an explanation on how to apply intuitive F2L in this case. Can someone imitate the scramble and my moves and give one? Thanks in advance!

 

[miniGOINGS]

Ok, from this point, I'd be looking for one of the 1x2x2 blocks in the back to put together (the ones with B colours).

I notice that the one on the right is REALLY easy (you can see all three pieces on the left right away)!

L' U2 L R U R

From here, the other 1x2x2 is easy as well. An alternative would be to finish the right block with (U' SexyMove*3).

R U' R' U2 L

Then I would basically solve the last 2 slots.

 

[miniGOINGS]

My other approach would be to solve the entire left block at the same time. I sometimes prefer this for speedsolving when it's an easy case (because I love <R, U>).

After the EOline...

U' L R2 U L U L U2 L2 (9/9)

Now the back-right 1x2x2 is easy!

U R U' R2 (4/13)

And then the slot.

U R U2 R' U' R U R' (8/21)

This is what I would have done in a speedsolve, it also gives a nice COLL.

R U2 R' U' R U R' U' R U' R' (11/32)

And then my favourite Z Perm.

U' R' U' R2 U R U R' U' R U R U' R U' R' (16/48)

 

[Cride5]

Out of curiosity, how many of you are actually faster with ZZ/ZB than another method?

I'm pretty slow at anything other than ZZ My fastest after ZZ is probably Fridrich and I think the average is somewhere around 35 sec. Can't do any solves just now, but will post a CFOP avg later on...

Best Average of 12: 37.37
Best Time: 25.79
Worst Time: 49.30
Standard Deviation: 4.2 (11.2%)

Spoiler

1. 39.73 L2 D2 U B2 D F2 L2 D2 U' L2 F' L U F2 D B' L B' U B R'
2. 36.76 D L2 R2 D' R2 B2 U R2 U2 B2 R U2 R' D' B2 F R D' R2 U' F U'
3. 41.13 R2 B2 R2 U' F2 R2 F2 L2 D' U2 R F2 R2 B D U' R' D2 B' U2 L
4. 37.13 D2 F2 R2 U' R2 B2 U' R2 B2 D' R' F' U R2 U2 F L D2 U2 B2 U2
5. 40.28 R2 U2 F2 R2 U2 F2 U B2 L2 F2 L' F' R' U L' F' D2 R' F2 R2 F'
6. 43.63 R2 U' L2 B2 L2 B2 D' R2 B2 U B' D F D' U R B' R2 U2 B R2
7. 28.95 L2 D B2 D2 U' F2 D B D' B2 D2 L' U' F D' R2 B' F'
8. (25.79) B2 U' F2 U' L2 D2 R2 U L2 U B' R' D2 F2 L2 U F' R F2 L' R2
9. 36.54 U' L2 D F2 D2 B2 D' L2 F2 D' F' L F2 R' D U2 F2 U2 F R
10. (49.30) R2 D' B2 R2 B2 L2 D' U' B2 U' L' U B' F2 R F D' B' D2 U2
11. 38.23 U R2 D L2 B2 U R2 F2 U L2 R' F L D' R B' D2 F U2 F2 R2
12. 31.34 B2 L2 B2 D U2 B2 R2 U' L2 D' F L U2 L' B' R2 B2 U L R U'

... kept putting my fingers on the bad edges, not used to cross :confused:

This is my first cubing today, so I think I could manage ~33sec with a bit of time, but you get the idea.

 

[Innocence]

Something tells me that ZZ is becoming the new Roux. Or just the new 'trend' in general. Does anyone want to be Waffle and put "stop using ZZ" in their signature?

 

[a small kitten]

Out of curiosity, how many of you are actually faster with ZZ/ZB than another method?

I specialize in OH using ZZ and I'm almost sub 20. The only other method I know is Fridrich and I don't think I can even sub 30 with that.

 

[Sir E Brum]

scramble: D B' D2 L2 F B2 L' F' R' D2 U' F' U' B R2 D L' U' L D F R2 B U2 L2
Two misoriented on top, one on bottom, one in middle layer. 2+1+1=4.
L U' R' U F for EO
B2 U' F2 for line

I need an explanation on how to apply intuitive F2L in this case. Can someone imitate the scramble and my moves and give one? Thanks in advance!

EO: L R2 F (3/3)
Line: L2 U R2 D (4/7)

This F2L has so many possibilities lol. To see what I mean just do R' U at this and you see 3 pairs.

What I really did...

F2L:
R' U L R U2 L (6/13)
R2 U R' U2 L' U R2 (7/20)
U' L U L' U' L (6/26)
U2 R U R' (4/30)

LL:
x' R2 D2 R' U' R D2 R' U R' F (10/40)

That was a crazy easy solve... lol

Other F2L Possibilities (same EOLine):

F2L:
R' U L R U2 R2 U R' U' R' (10/17)
L2 U2 R' (3/20)
L U2 L' U' L U' L2 (7/27)

LL:
Lw' U' L U R U' L' U x' (8/35)
U' M2 U M' U2 M U M2 (8/43)


F2L:
R' U L' R2 U2 R' (6/13)
L2 U2 L (3/16)
D' R' U' R D (5/21)
U2 L U' L' U' L U2 L' (8/29)

LL:
U L' U' L U2 R' U L' U' R U' L (11/40)

 

[iasimp1997]

Wow! All of my ZZ solves have been sub30, and that's pretty amazing for me. When I first started Fridrich I was always 35-40s.

 

[Cyrus C.]

Wow! All of my ZZ solves have been sub30, and that's pretty amazing for me. When I first started Fridrich I was always 35-40s.

LL doesn't change though.

 

[koreancuber]

Wow! All of my ZZ solves have been sub30, and that's pretty amazing for me. When I first started Fridrich I was always 35-40s.

LL doesn't change though.

F2L? No cuberotationsrule.

 

[Cyrus C.]

Wow! All of my ZZ solves have been sub30, and that's pretty amazing for me. When I first started Fridrich I was always 35-40s.

LL doesn't change though.

F2L? No cuberotationsrule.

...

What I'm trying to say is, you may be thinking ZZ is awesome because right now you're starting out better than you were with Fridrich. However, you probably started Fridrich after beginners, with a bad LL, bad finger tricks, etc. Now you have all those down, so obviously you will have a decrease in starting time.

 

[koreancuber]

Wow! All of my ZZ solves have been sub30, and that's pretty amazing for me. When I first started Fridrich I was always 35-40s.

LL doesn't change though.

F2L? No cuberotationsrule.

...

What I'm trying to say is, you may be thinking ZZ is awesome because right now you're starting out better than you were with Fridrich. However, you probably started Fridrich after beginners, with a bad LL, bad finger tricks, etc. Now you have all those down, so obviously you will have a decrease in starting time.

There are different variations of the Last layer you know.

 

[Cyrus C.]

Wow! All of my ZZ solves have been sub30, and that's pretty amazing for me. When I first started Fridrich I was always 35-40s.

LL doesn't change though.

F2L? No cuberotationsrule.

...

What I'm trying to say is, you may be thinking ZZ is awesome because right now you're starting out better than you were with Fridrich. However, you probably started Fridrich after beginners, with a bad LL, bad finger tricks, etc. Now you have all those down, so obviously you will have a decrease in starting time.

There are different variations of the Last layer you know.

Do you really think if he just learned ZZ he will use a variation on the last layer?

 

[koreancuber]

Wow! All of my ZZ solves have been sub30, and that's pretty amazing for me. When I first started Fridrich I was always 35-40s.

LL doesn't change though.

F2L? No cuberotationsrule.

...

What I'm trying to say is, you may be thinking ZZ is awesome because right now you're starting out better than you were with Fridrich. However, you probably started Fridrich after beginners, with a bad LL, bad finger tricks, etc. Now you have all those down, so obviously you will have a decrease in starting time.

There are different variations of the Last layer you know.

Do you really think if he just learned ZZ he will use a variation on the last layer?

I'm not focusing on him. There could be a Roux-er that learned COLL and then switched to ZZ.

 

[miniGOINGS]

Therecould be a Roux-er that learned COLL and then switched to ZZ.

'Tis what I was planning. Then I got lazy, and decided to switch back to Roux and learn CMLL.

 

[iasimp1997]

Wow! All of my ZZ solves have been sub30, and that's pretty amazing for me. When I first started Fridrich I was always 35-40s.

LL doesn't change though.

F2L? No cuberotationsrule.

...

What I'm trying to say is, you may be thinking ZZ is awesome because right now you're starting out better than you were with Fridrich. However, you probably started Fridrich after beginners, with a bad LL, bad finger tricks, etc. Now you have all those down, so obviously you will have a decrease in starting time.

Well, yes, that's a good point. But I've timed my F2L separately too, and the times are significantly lower than my Fridrich F2L (which I've been practicing for a long time)

 

[iasimp1997]

What can ZZ users be called? What I mean is Fridrich users are called Clones, Roux users are Rebels, MGLS users are cool people, etc. What can we be called

 

[miniGOINGS]

Fridrich users aren't Clones now. There are too many variations of Fridrich to be simply Clones.

While Rebels may still use Roux, not all Roux users are Rebels, and not all Rebels use Roux.