[Help Thread] Roux Discussion and Help

[maps600]

Just use what you know. It doesn't really matter how you solve it. Actually the "slicing" Z perm used by most people, including Feliks, is actually the Roux way of solving it.

 

[supercavitation]

Scramble: L B2 U2 L F2 R F2 D2 U F2 D R F' D' F2 U' B F

Is the first block for this scramble deceptively hard, or am I doing something wrong? I'd bet on the I'm doing something wrong option.

 

[Renslay]

Scramble: L B2 U2 L F2 R F2 D2 U F2 D R F' D' F2 U' B F

Is the first block for this scramble deceptively hard, or am I doing something wrong? I'd bet on the I'm doing something wrong option.

Depends on. What would you do? (And what are your block colors?)

I would do for example:

z'
U' L U B D' F2 (6 moves)

or:

z'
D' F2 U2 B' R r B' (7 moves)

or:

z x'
L' F2 U' L' D2 F2 r' F (8 moves)

But it's possible that you are using an entirely different color scheme for your first block.

EDIT:
A nice solution with the first one (the F2B is pretty good!):
z'
U' L U B D' F2 (6)
r R U' R' U M' R' U R (9)
U x' D R2 U' R' U R U' R2' D' R U l' (13)
U' M U M U' M' U2 M U M2 U' M U2 M' (14)

 

[supercavitation]

I'm basically (y, x2) neutral, so as long as you started scrambling with white or yellow on top, whichever block was readymade would be the one I used. My first two attempts led to 10 move solutions, on the third time, I got a 7 move solution. The sixth time, I got a 5 move solution, which jarcs has confirmed was optimal.

Follow up question. Is it worthwhile to spend that much time on a single scramble to find the optimal block for that scramble, or would the time be better spent working on other scrambles?

Edit: Forgot to say thanks!

 

[rowan]

I figured this was the best place to ask: Does anyone know the chances of a having a case where no 1x1x2 block can be built in a single move? I've been solving for a bit and this is the first time it's happened to me. I assume this happens a lot more to most Roux solvers, but I'm fully color neutral. I know superflip is also like this. (L F2 U2 F2 L' B2 U2 L2 U2 F2 R2 U' F D' R D L B F' L' D was the scramble for reference.)

 

[GuRoux]

I'm basically (y, x2) neutral, so as long as you started scrambling with white or yellow on top, whichever block was readymade would be the one I used. My first two attempts led to 10 move solutions, on the third time, I got a 7 move solution. The sixth time, I got a 5 move solution, which jarcs has confirmed was optimal.

Follow up question. Is it worthwhile to spend that much time on a single scramble to find the optimal block for that scramble, or would the time be better spent working on other scrambles?

Edit: Forgot to say thanks!

it probably is worth doing a little in order to develop some good motifs for creating the first block.

 

[supercavitation]

Scramble: B2 L2 U2 B R D F2 D' B D' U' L F2 R U' F

FB: D2 B F' U (4)

SB: L' R' U2 r M' U' M U2 r U r' (11)

CMLL (still on 2-look): R' F' L' F R F' L F U' R' U L' U2 R U' R' U2 R L (19)

LSE: M2 U' M M' U2 (can't believe I missed that this could have just been U) M' U2 M2 U M' U2 M U2 M2 (14)

Extremely lucky scramble, but I feel like I could have done SB with fewer moves. Also, any tips for noticing cancellations during LSE?

 

[TheOneOnTheLeft]

Scramble: B2 L2 U2 B R D F2 D' B D' U' L F2 R U' F

FB: D2 B F' U (4)

SB: L' R' U2 r M' U M U2 r U r' (11)

CMLL (still on 2-look): R' F' L' F R F' L F U' R' U L' U2 R U' R' U2 R L (19)

LSE: M2 U' M M' U2 (can't believe I missed that this could have just been U) M' U2 M2 U M' U2 M U2 M2 (14)

Extremely lucky scramble, but I feel like I could have done SB with fewer moves. Also, any tips for noticing cancellations during LSE?

I did the same second block as you but with a normal R, not r at the end, to orient centres.

LSE: M2 U M' U2 M2 U M' U2 M U2 M2 although I think that's what you said you could have done.

I feel like spotting skips/cancellations in LSE is just about learning to check stickers ahead of time. You want to know what colour LU and RU are as you do M2 to place the pieces that belong in UL/UR, so you know whether to do U or U' after, and so that you know what M-slice case you have. It's something I need to work on.

 

[DeeDubb]

The Roux thread is falling way too far down the list, so I'll bump it with an accomplishment. Tonight I had a 15.07 single, and nothing too crazy luckwise. My CMLL was one of the easiest ones (F sexy F'), but still it was full steps, everything just went fast. I feel like sub 20 is becoming a realistic possibility within the next couple months.

 

[GuRoux]

The Roux thread is falling way too far down the list, so I'll bump it with an accomplishment. Tonight I had a 15.07 single, and nothing too crazy luckwise. My CMLL was one of the easiest ones (F sexy F'), but still it was full steps, everything just went fast. I feel like sub 20 is becoming a realistic possibility within the next couple months.

wow, already at 23 seconds i see. It seems you are improving fairly quickly, I'm sure you'll get sub 20 in no time.

 

[Renslay]

The Roux thread is falling way too far down the list, so I'll bump it with an accomplishment. Tonight I had a 15.07 single, and nothing too crazy luckwise. My CMLL was one of the easiest ones (F sexy F'), but still it was full steps, everything just went fast. I feel like sub 20 is becoming a realistic possibility within the next couple months.

Sounds good!:tu

 

[DeeDubb]

Roux Example Solve of the Week

Let's add some flavor to keep this thread going. I'll post a scramble, and my solve. You can post your solve, and rate mine as well if you want

Scramble: R B2 L B2 R U2 L' B2 U2 R2 U L2 B U F' R' U2 F L D'

Solve:

x2 y // inspection
D2 U2 F' // 2x2x1 (3)
U2 Rw U' R B' // LB (5)
R Rw U2 R2 U' R' // 2x2x1 (6)
U2 R' U2 R U Rw' U' R // RB (8)
(U2) x' F U' R U L' U2 R' U2 R // CMLL (10)
U M' U M' // EO (4)
U' M' U2 M' // LBRB (4)
U' M U2 M' U2 // L4E (5) Total: 45

I feel like my solves are night and day compared to a while back. I don't see a ton of room for improvement on this scramble, but I'm sure some more creative Rouxers can find some better stuff Also feel free to be as color neutral as you want. I'm adding color neutrality now, but still not great in my speed solves (CN average when not using my main setup is around 33 seconds)

 

[GuRoux]

Let's add some flavor to keep this thread going. I'll post a scramble, and my solve. You can post your solve, and rate mine as well if you want

Scramble: R B2 L B2 R U2 L' B2 U2 R2 U L2 B U F' R' U2 F L D'

Solve:

x2 y // inspection
D2 U2 F' // 2x2x1 (3)
U2 Rw U' R B' // LB (5)
R Rw U2 R2 U' R' // 2x2x1 (6)
U2 R' U2 R U Rw' U' R // RB (8)
(U2) x' F U' R U L' U2 R' U2 R // CMLL (10)
U M' U M' // EO (4)
U' M' U2 M' // LBRB (4)
U' M U2 M' U2 // L4E (5) Total: 45

I feel like my solves are night and day compared to a while back. I don't see a ton of room for improvement on this scramble, but I'm sure some more creative Rouxers can find some better stuff Also feel free to be as color neutral as you want. I'm adding color neutrality now, but still not great in my speed solves (CN average when not using my main setup is around 33 seconds)

your solve is really good, there doesn't seem much wrong with it. don't be afraid to do E2 instead of D2 U2 like in your first block. Since i only solve with blue or green with white on bottom i don't think there is much better than what you wrote.

 

[DeeDubb]

your solve is really good, there doesn't seem much wrong with it. don't be afraid to do E2 instead of D2 U2 like in your first block. Since i only solve with blue or green with white on bottom i don't think there is much better than what you wrote.

Thanks. Yeah, I should use E moves during first block a lot more often. I need to get out of the habit of always having my first block center on my left.

I'm practicing a lot of CN during my slow solves, but only blue/green as my first block and yellow/white as my bottom. Maybe you can start working on adding yellow/white top bottom color neutrality? It's not a crazy jump, just gotta remember how it reflects your F/B colors (same as doing green first reflects your F/B colors).

EDIT: Congrats on your first competition btw!

 

[GuRoux]

Thanks. Yeah, I should use E moves during first block a lot more often. I need to get out of the habit of always having my first block center on my left.

I'm practicing a lot of CN during my slow solves, but only blue/green as my first block and yellow/white as my bottom. Maybe you can start working on adding yellow/white top bottom color neutrality? It's not a crazy jump, just gotta remember how it reflects your F/B colors (same as doing green first reflects your F/B colors).

EDIT: Congrats on your first competition btw!

thanks, didn't do near as well as i would have liked but i guess that was first comp nerves. I've thought about adding more color neutrality, and it doesn't seem that hard to add the yellow, but i feel too lazy. plus, what i've got is still pretty efficient for me. I think when speed solving, i average about 9 moves for first block.

EDIT: just did an average of 5 with yellow: 17.78, so that's about how much i have to improve from.

Edit (2): next average of 5 with yellow: 16.64, maybe i'll try adding later.

 

[Renslay]

Let's add some flavor to keep this thread going. I'll post a scramble, and my solve. You can post your solve, and rate mine as well if you want

Scramble: R B2 L B2 R U2 L' B2 U2 R2 U L2 B U F' R' U2 F L D'

Solve:

x2 y // inspection
D2 U2 F' // 2x2x1 (3)
U2 Rw U' R B' // LB (5)
R Rw U2 R2 U' R' // 2x2x1 (6)
U2 R' U2 R U Rw' U' R // RB (8)
(U2) x' F U' R U L' U2 R' U2 R // CMLL (10)
U M' U M' // EO (4)
U' M' U2 M' // LBRB (4)
U' M U2 M' U2 // L4E (5) Total: 45

I feel like my solves are night and day compared to a while back. I don't see a ton of room for improvement on this scramble, but I'm sure some more creative Rouxers can find some better stuff Also feel free to be as color neutral as you want. I'm adding color neutrality now, but still not great in my speed solves (CN average when not using my main setup is around 33 seconds)

Seems very good solve for me.

 

[Shah]

Got my PB average of 12, today with my ZhanChi.

Sub-20 seems to be around the corner. And, I am switching back to ZhanChi.

Spoiler

Rubik's cube
Jun 12, 2014 4:08:13 PM - 4:19:42 PM

Mean: 17.60
Average: 17.38
Best time: 15.41
Median: 17.35
Worst time: 21.95
Standard deviation: 1.68

Best average of 5: 16.64
1-5 - 16.47 (15.41) 17.63 15.83 (21.95)

Best average of 12: 17.38
1-12 - 16.47 (15.41) 17.63 15.83 (21.95) 17.47 19.34 17.08 16.53 17.23 17.52 18.70

1. 16.47 R2 L2 D2 R2 D U2 B2 D' R2 B2 L D' R2 U' L U2 B' L' B2 F
2. 15.41 U2 R2 B2 U L2 B2 D R2 D2 L2 D' R' F' R' L2 U2 B' L' F' L D' U'
3. 17.63 B2 L2 F2 U' R2 D' L2 U R2 U R B F' R U' L2 D F' L2
4. 15.83 U2 L2 U R2 U' B2 D2 F2 U' F2 U B U B2 U' F R F' D L' F' U'
5. 21.95 B2 D' F2 U' R2 U R2 U2 B2 L D' F2 R L2 B2 F D' B' L U'
6. 17.47 L2 D L2 D' F2 R2 U' R2 F2 U2 B R B' F L2 F R2 L' U F' U
7. 19.34 D' R2 D R2 B2 D2 B2 L2 D L R2 B' U2 L F L B U'
8. 17.08 U F2 U2 B2 U' F2 R2 D2 R2 L2 U' L' D' L2 B D' R2 D2 L F R
9. 16.53 B2 D' F2 R2 B2 R2 U' L2 U L2 U2 F L F' L' D' L' D B' R2 L2
10. 17.23 L2 U' F2 R2 D F2 L2 D L2 U2 B2 R' F' R' B2 L' B' U2 L2 B L'
11. 17.52 D2 B2 R2 B2 D' L2 D R2 D' B2 U B D' U' L2 F' R D2 B' L' U2 R2
12. 18.70 R2 U B2 D' B2 D' F2 D' L2 U2 R2 B' D' R' F' R2 U2 L' D' F'

 

[Knut]

I have a slightly random question about the first block. It's kind of hard to explain, so I'll use an example of what I do.
For the first block, would it work well to place the center with the edge instead of the edge with the center? For instance:
Scramble (off qqtimer): L' U' B2 D2 U' F' R2 D' B' F' R D U' B' D' B' D' U2 B L B' U L' U D2
I would do:
x y' // inspection
Uw' R' Uw2 // 2x2x1 (3)
U' M' U' L U2 L' U L U' L'// LB (10)

I know that I fail at blockbuilding(working on it ), but does the idea of placing the center with the DL edge instead of the DL edge with the center seem at all plausible?

 

[DeeDubb]

I have a slightly random question about the first block. It's kind of hard to explain, so I'll use an example of what I do.
For the first block, would it work well to place the center with the edge instead of the edge with the center? For instance:
Scramble (off qqtimer): L' U' B2 D2 U' F' R2 D' B' F' R D U' B' D' B' D' U2 B L B' U L' U D2
I would do:
x y' // inspection
Uw' R' Uw2 // 2x2x1 (3)
U' M' U' L U2 L' U L U' L'// LB (10)

I know that I fail at blockbuilding(working on it ), but does the idea of placing the center with the DL edge instead of the DL edge with the center seem at all plausible?

You can for sure move the center around. I don't do that nearly enough. If you look at my example solve from earlier, GuRoux points out that I could use an E2 instead of a U2+D2, which I should have done.

BTW: Here's my solution for your first block with your colors:

x' // Inspection
U' L' U2 // 2x2x1 (3)
D L' U Rw2 U L' U' B // LB (8)

 

[Renslay]

I have a slightly random question about the first block. It's kind of hard to explain, so I'll use an example of what I do.
For the first block, would it work well to place the center with the edge instead of the edge with the center? For instance:
Scramble (off qqtimer): L' U' B2 D2 U' F' R2 D' B' F' R D U' B' D' B' D' U2 B L B' U L' U D2
I would do:
x y' // inspection
Uw' R' Uw2 // 2x2x1 (3)
U' M' U' L U2 L' U L U' L'// LB (10)

I know that I fail at blockbuilding(working on it ), but does the idea of placing the center with the DL edge instead of the DL edge with the center seem at all plausible?

Yes, moving the center to the edge rather than the edge to the center is a very good idea, and I use it myself all the time.

Also, I would do:

x y' // inspection
Uw' R' Uw2 // 2x2x1 (3)
U' R2 B M' Rw B' // LB (6)

Or with a B' move in the beginning, you can avoid the aweful "sticking together in a wrong way" situation for the last corner-edge pair:

x y' // inspection
B' Uw' R' Uw2 // 2x2x1 (4)
U2 B2 U' B // LB (4)

Which equals to:

x y' // inspection
B' Uw' R' E2 // 2x2x1 (4)
B2 U' B // LB (3)