new method for 3x3, 4x4 and 5x5

[bonhomme]

hi, just to present you the lepafo method... Created by a friend of mine, a french guy like me. http://lepafo.free.fr/

I use the fridrich method for the 3x3 and his method for bigger cubes. He's still trying to improve it. So if you want to test it....

 

[pyrotek7x7]

I don't speak French. :\

 

[bonhomme]

yeah I know that it's in french but there are some applets.... :rolleyes:
I use them on the english links.

 

[AvGalen]

I know most frech people don't agree, but.....
English is the language of the cube (and the rest of the world/internet).

Some other tips:
Remove the cube-mousepointer, it makes navigating difficult
Use different applets, these behave very badly when scrolling
Add algs use notation

I hope this gets translated, I would like to take a look at it.

 

[bonhomme]

"I know most frech people don't agree, but.....
English is the language of the cube (and the rest of the world/internet)."

Sure, I am French and I don't agree.

 

[lepafo]

how could you dare answer such things?


pyrotek7x7: it would have been more constructive to give tips. Not only an "I don't speak french. :\" which seems really ridiculous.

AvGalen: It's not even a matter of agreeing or not. The fact is that my friend has kindly linked my web site on this page and you have to take it as it comes. Then try to give tips if you want to. It is those kind of answers from english speaking people that makes french people go out of nerves and chauvinistic as I ain't (A proof is as you don't seem to do, I am currently studying foreign languages).
So a better answer would have been: Try to translate these pages. English people are very lazy guys.

Indeed english speaking people like you ('cos I don't want to discriminate all english speaking people) are very lazy people. An applet is simple to use and from it you can choose which angle you prefer to transcribe algs. Of course you know notation since you asked for it. And what's wrong with those applets. Aren't they nice !?! I have never had any scrolling problem with them. Please tell me exactly what is the problem and if there is one I would try to set it up as quickly as possible.

And last but not least, I won't remove the cube-mousepointer since it is really easy to understand how it works. Moreover it's part of the soul of my website.

PS: maybe I will translate my website in english but it's not because you asked me to do so but because I'm really fond of this beautiful language.

sincerely yours.

Edit: maybe you don't know them. Edouard Chambon, Thibaut Jacquinot, Fr?d?rick Badie, Jean Pons and Gilles Roux. They all are well ranked and 2 of them held world record. Don't tell "English is the language of the cube" anymore. It will soon change.

 

[tenderchkn]

Maybe because I'm an ignorant American, or I'm suspicious of defensive tones, or I just have an inherent disliking of custom cursors - AvGalen is right. It has nothing to do with language, but a matter of web design. I can navigate and understand what you're trying to do without algorithms and with that stupid cursor that points at the wrong place, but that means neither that its enjoyable or that many people can do the same.

If criticism is something you do not enjoy, then...umm, password protect your site, I guess?

 

[AvGalen]

lepafo: I was afraid I would step on somebody's toes with my comment. I don't know why, but it always happens if you tell French people that "their" language is not the preferred language.

Maybe you haven't noticed because you were a little ticked-off, but
a) I am english speaking, but I am Dutch. This basically means I have learned 4 languages (Dutch, English, German, French) and even graduated in all of them. However my French is still not good enough to understand your site.
B) All comments I made about your site are fair and constructive tips. If you just want to make a site you like, you have succeeded. If you want to make a site that others like/love/tell others about you would be wise to listen to tips like mine and not just discard them.
c) A lot of great cubers these days are coming from the Asian area. Most of them create a localized site, but they almost always have an English section too. The same goes for one of the great French cubers you mentioned: http://grrroux.free.fr/

 

[sgowal]

I believe this forum's language is English so if you want to share a method you should probably write it in English.

Also, you mentioned a bunch of great french cubers, who are all able to speak english. Currently there are 23 countries pre-registered to the World's championship with most likely at least 20 different languages and you should not expect everyone to speak french. English is an easy language that everybody can learn very quickly.

Furthermore Arnaud's remarks are quite contructive... I don't like the rubik-shaped pointer as well.

PS: Also, I speak french and my website is in english

 

[Fred]

I don't speak French either, but there are things called free online translators. They're nice and useful. I used a Polish one to read up on the zz method.

Just using the applets, you can see the gist of what's going on in the method, so you don't even need to use an online translator. If you're lazy, you can still see what's going on.

What I like most about the lepafo method is that it leaves one slice for last in the 4x4x4 method, which I what I also do. (Please check out my method: http://z12.invisionfree.com/rubiks/index.php?showtopic=702) I think that the lepafo method is an excellent method for learning how to do big cubes because there are no weird issues with parity. I'm not sure how good it would be for speedcubing. I would be interested in seeing what the move counts are like. I would guess that they are a little on the high side, but I would also guess that recognition would be pretty easy.

For now, though, I'm going to stick with my method because I think making two 1 x (N-1) x N blocks is a better start than making a face, as in the Roux method. I like learning different ways of solving the cube, so I will play around with the lepafo method. I think a generalization of the zz method to larger cubes would be really cool, but I haven't found one yet.

Finally, the cursor was a little bit annoying until I got the hang of it.

 

[lepafo]

First, I never had either the intention to send message or to register in this place. Bonhomme did it because he believed it could be great to share a new method with other people. So you can't ask me to share it in english as I didn't want to share it for now.
Second, I accept criticism but I'm not supposed to agree with it. The thing is that the way you criticised was a bit unfair even if there was good remarks. Password is a useless one though.
Third, I never said you were "ignorant American", nor stupid english people or things like that. I didn't say French people were better either. I am a rubik's cuber and as such I think the language one uses is not important. I suppose that if you want to learn a new method and if there are applets, it won't ever be a brake.
Fourth, please AvGalen, stop saying that: "I don't know why, but it always happens if you tell French people that "their" language is not the preferred language." We as french really don't care about what is the preferred language as we know ours is not the most useful. It's just a thing I really don't understand. Why are most english people always saying those kind of sentences that leads to nowhere (I know it's exagerated but your sentence was too).
Fifth, why is there so many answers to this topic since I have given my opinion?
Sixth, Just do what you want. Those who are interested will send me feedback directly on my website. I'm ready to listen to any good and/or bad comments(bad is better because we can't improve ourselves when we only have positive feedfacks)even if it's in english. I will try to do my best to answer as quickly as possible.

 

[Arakron]

Originally posted by sgowal@Mar 25 2007, 09:31 PM
English is an easy language that everybody can learn very quickly.

Apart from bits and pieces of Latin and Spanish, English is my only language (can you tell I'm American?), and although I'm a fan of it, that's simply not true - English is one of the most complex and difficult languages to learn..nothing about it makes sense, and for every rule there are five more exceptions. It's just a language that a lot of people do learn.

 

[AvGalen]

First: I agree that you didn't decide to share it HERE and that Bonhomme made that decision for you. Now you say that you didn't want to share it! I had the (obviously wrong) idea that if you put something on the internet, you do it so others can see.
Second: I never said you should agree with me and all choises about your website are indeed yours to make. Also I wasn't the one suggesting that you should put a password on it (which was a humorist/sarcastic remark from tenderchkn), but now you have said that you didn't want to share it, it might actually be a good idea. And please tell me which part of my tips were unfair.
Third: Applets only can show so much, especially if the algorithm isn't listed below it. Maybe everyone could figure out what you want to say by looking at the applets, but I think it would be much better if everyone could also understand your text-written explanation. Notation below applets is also very useful once printed. And what does "it won't ever be a brake" mean? I am still experiencing problems with the applets. If I scroll up/down the page the cubes partly disappear and further scrolling becomes difficult. This is especially true if the page hasn't been fully loaded. I am using Vista/IE7/JRE 1.6/ATI X600.
Fourth: "Why are most english people saying...."? because you say things like "maybe you don't know them. Edouard Chambon, Thibaut Jacquinot, Fr?d?rick Badie, Jean Pons and Gilles Roux. They all are well ranked and 2 of them held world record. Don't tell "English is the language of the cube" anymore. It will soon change." I have actually met all of them several times and I was there in Brussels when Edouard did 10.36, Fr?d?rick did his 1:44.47 and Thibaut won 3x3x3. But the Dutch have the European champion (Jo?l van Noort) and one of the leaders of the WCA (Ron van Bruchem) but we don't even consider building our websites in Dutch because we want to share them with the whole world. The Dutch even won more events there (http://www.worldcubeassociation.org/results/c.php?winners=Winners&competitionId=BelgianOpen2007) and if results would really be an indicator of the preferred language, I guess we should all start learning Hungarian.
Fifth: Why so many reactions? My guess is: Because people are actually interested in your method, but don't agree with your arguments.
Sixth: I agree, but some people will also react here. If you want to share your method, (I am no longer sure) I hope you will respond to them.

I am hoping to hear from you here, I am hoping to understand your method, and I am hoping I will actually meet you at a competition (or elsewhere) so we can talk in person and share our ideas.

 

[bonhomme]

oops.

Please Please Please. Cubing doesn't care about languages, races, religions, Yin or Yang. Can we come back about the method and nothing else ?

<------- this is international.

 

[lepafo]

So let's say we didn't understand each other at first and that parts of our reactions were exagerated and unjustified (mainly mine I must admit).

What about the method in itself. I know what fred thinks of it but may I know from you anything else than the webdesign is not right (by the way I dislike IE and prefer to navigate with mozilla firefox. That could explain you had problems with the mousepointer.)?


PS:I'll always answer to any questions or remarks - as I said above.


Edit: I've momentarily removed mousepointers with IE but they are still present with other navigators.

 

[AvGalen]

I just tried to understand the 3x3x3 method, maybe I will look at 4x4x4 and 5x5x5 next.

Please correct me if I didn't understand the method correctly:
1) First layer edges
2-5) First layer corners
6) Last layer corner PLL
7) Last layer corner OLL
8-11) Last layer edges
12) middle layer edges

This doesn't seem to be a speedcubing method, because there are to many steps to be fast.

This doesn't seem to be a beginners method, because there are too many algs to learn.

This doesn't seem to be an intermediate method, because you can't easily change from a beginners method to this method, or from this method to a speedcubing method.

It is an original method though. I would consider it a mixture between a beginners method (because it's layer by layer), corners first/waterman (because except for the cross, all corners are done first) and Roux (because that also leasves some edges in the middle layer unsolved untill the end)

I wouldn't recommend anyone to learn this method, because there are so many better ones out there that are either faster or easier. Who do you see as the target audience for this method?

 

[Dirk BerGuRK]

Would you mind giving more explanation on how you solve the corners? It looks like you permute and orient the LL corners simultaneously very quickly, but without memorizing a list of C*LL algs. From your website, you only have one example per orientation. I don't know French, sadly, so I can't figure out exactly what your second step page was all about.

 

[AvGalen]

No, he uses a 2 step method for last layer corners:
2. Les coins de la face du haut.
Placer: (Corner PLL)
Orienter: (Corner OLL)

Some of these steps even need to be done multiple times, like in most beginners methods:
ex?cut?e une fois: (execute the alg once)
ex?cut?e deux fois: (execute the alg twice)
ex?cut?e trois fois: (execute the alg three times)

 

[Fred]

I think the method, as written, is a very good way for beginners to learn how to solve big cubes. The 3x3x3 method may or may not be that great, but I think the bigger cube methods are pretty good. Similarly, Per's cage method is a good way to speedsolve the 4x4x4, but you probably wouldn't want to use it for the 3x3x3.

With a bit of tweaking, I think the lepafo method becomes pretty good as a speedcubing method for big cubes. I played around with it on my 4x4x4. For instance, you can use CLL for the corners and use commutators more cleverly to solve more 2 edges at once, rather than one. For the first two layers, I tried solving them together kind of like Fridrich f2l, and I think that might be faster.

 

[lepafo]

So as to begin, this method is obviously not for speedcubing and was created for big cubes. Nonetheless you can see a resolution of a 3x3x3 in the video section. I performed it in about 33sec and you can see there are some hesitations and mistakes.
I just adapted it to the 3x3x3 for fun. It's quite pleasant to use this method even if it's not efficient. You almost see immediately what you have to do next.

The corners of last layers are done with algs from beginner methods. It seems to be called niklas to place them and anti-sune for the orientation. The only problem is that you may sometimes repeat them several times. However you can use COLL to skip this step if you want to.

For the 3x3x3: It's not even necessary to use all the algs. It's sometimes even a waiste of time. For exemple, in some cases at the LL edges step, you can use some PLL that you know from petrus method. If you don't want to learn them, you can use the basic alg to place all the edges one after the other.

The aimed audience is obviously the persons who want to learn only one method for all there NxNxN shaped cube. I experienced to solve a 20x20x20 on my old laptop and I succeeded with only the 3 new algs of this method and the algs of LbL.

PS: I definetely removed the old mousepointers to clearer ones.