Heise Method Discussion thread

milkolate said:
... she doesn't want to memorize any algos. She wants to solve the cube completely intuitively. I think the Heise method is the only way to go.
Click to expand...

Have you seen 8355? It is possible to teach that with only two very easy algorithms.
R U R' U' (used for orienting and permuting all corners) and
R U R' U R U R' (used for the final edge to be placed from E-slice to U-face)

Solving is fairly easy/intuitive and goes like this:
  1. Build Cross
  2. Use R U R' U' to insert 3x D-layer corners
  3. Use keyhole to insert 3x E-layer edges
  4. Use keyhole to insert U-layer edges (using R U R' U R U R' alg for final 2 if needed)
  5. Flip cube upside down (x2 rotation) and use R U R' U' to insert final corners
This is what I usually teach, but instead of using keyhole for the E-slice edges I'll usually use R' U' R' U' R' U R U R, as folks usually find it easier to understand.

Heise is a fairly difficult method, so it probably isn't the most appropriate thing to teach a beginner. Generally, completing the cube with no algorithms is hard! However if its just the last step you're finding difficult, why not use R U R' U' from the 8355 method to finish off the corners instead?
 
Cride5 said:
milkolate said:
... she doesn't want to memorize any algos. She wants to solve the cube completely intuitively. I think the Heise method is the only way to go.
Click to expand...

Have you seen 8355? It is possible to teach that with only two very easy algorithms.
R U R' U' (used for orienting and permuting all corners) and
R U R' U R U R' (used for the final edge to be placed from E-slice to U-face)

Solving is fairly easy/intuitive and goes like this:
  1. Build Cross
  2. Use R U R' U' to insert 3x D-layer corners
  3. Use keyhole to insert 3x E-layer edges
  4. Use keyhole to insert U-layer edges (using R U R' U R U R' alg for final 2 if needed)
  5. Flip cube upside down (x2 rotation) and use R U R' U' to insert final corners
This is what I usually teach, but instead of using keyhole for the E-slice edges I'll usually use R' U' R' U' R' U R U R, as folks usually find it easier to understand.

Heise is a fairly difficult method, so it probably isn't the most appropriate thing to teach a beginner. Generally, completing the cube with no algorithms is hard! However if its just the last step you're finding difficult, why not use R U R' U' from the 8355 method to finish off the corners instead?
Click to expand...

What does "R U R' U R U R'" do?
 
its not really solving purely intuitively if you have to be taught a method is it?...
 
milkolate said:
What does "R U R' U R U R'" do?
Click to expand...

OK here's an example solve to show how each alg is used..

Scramble: F2 D' B2 R2 B2 D U2 L2 U' B2 F D2 B D2 R2 U' F R F' L' D'
  • Cross (intuitive): R' L' F U L R2 B2

  • Insert 3x D-layer corners:
    1. (RUR'U')
    2. y' (RUR'U')
    3. y' d (RUR'U' RUR'U' RUR'U')

  • Insert 3x E-slice edges:
    1. y2 (R'U'R'U'R'URUR)
    2. d2 (R'U'R'U'R'URUR)
    3. y' U' (R'U'R'U'R'URUR)

  • Use keyhole to place 3x U-layer edges (intuitive):
    y2 U2 R U' R' . y L' U L
  • Bring final U-layer edge into slot:
    y' (RUR'URUR') <-------------- This is the alg you asked about..
  • Now insert it into position:
    y U (L'U'LU'L'U'L) <----- Same alg but mirrored

  • Flip cube over to solve final corners:
    1. x2 y2 D (RUR'U' RUR'U' RUR'U')
    2. D (RUR'U')
    3. D2 (RUR'U' RUR'U' RUR'U' RUR'U' RUR'U')
    4. D2 (RUR'U' RUR'U' RUR'U') D2
 
Cride5 said:
milkolate said:
What does "R U R' U R U R'" do?
Click to expand...

OK here's an example solve to show how each alg is used..

Scramble: F2 D' B2 R2 B2 D U2 L2 U' B2 F D2 B D2 R2 U' F R F' L' D'
  • Cross (intuitive): R' L' F U L R2 B2

  • Insert 3x D-layer corners:
    1. (RUR'U')
    2. y' (RUR'U')
    3. y' d (RUR'U' RUR'U' RUR'U')

  • Insert 3x E-slice edges:
    1. y2 (R'U'R'U'R'URUR)
    2. d2 (R'U'R'U'R'URUR)
    3. y' U' (R'U'R'U'R'URUR)

  • Use keyhole to place 3x U-layer edges (intuitive):
    y2 U2 R U' R' . y L' U L
  • Bring final U-layer edge into slot:
    y' (RUR'URUR') <-------------- This is the alg you asked about..
  • Now insert it into position:
    y U (L'U'LU'L'U'L) <----- Same alg but mirrored

  • Flip cube over to solve final corners:
    1. x2 y2 D (RUR'U' RUR'U' RUR'U')
    2. D (RUR'U')
    3. D2 (RUR'U' RUR'U' RUR'U' RUR'U' RUR'U')
    4. D2 (RUR'U' RUR'U' RUR'U') D2
Click to expand...

sorry for being ignorant but what's a "d" notation?
 
If you want to teach someone to solve the cube without any algs, go Human Thistlewaite, Heise is rather hard for a beginner.

mvg
 
Cride5 said:
milkolate said:
What does "R U R' U R U R'" do?
Click to expand...

OK here's an example solve to show how each alg is used..

Scramble: F2 D' B2 R2 B2 D U2 L2 U' B2 F D2 B D2 R2 U' F R F' L' D'
  • Cross (intuitive): R' L' F U L R2 B2

  • Insert 3x D-layer corners:
    1. (RUR'U')
    2. y' (RUR'U')
    3. y' d (RUR'U' RUR'U' RUR'U')

  • Insert 3x E-slice edges:
    1. y2 (R'U'R'U'R'URUR)
    2. d2 (R'U'R'U'R'URUR)
    3. y' U' (R'U'R'U'R'URUR)

  • Use keyhole to place 3x U-layer edges (intuitive):
    y2 U2 R U' R' . y L' U L
  • Bring final U-layer edge into slot:
    y' (RUR'URUR') <-------------- This is the alg you asked about..
  • Now insert it into position:
    y U (L'U'LU'L'U'L) <----- Same alg but mirrored

  • Flip cube over to solve final corners:
    1. x2 y2 D (RUR'U' RUR'U' RUR'U')
    2. D (RUR'U')
    3. D2 (RUR'U' RUR'U' RUR'U' RUR'U' RUR'U')
    4. D2 (RUR'U' RUR'U' RUR'U') D2
Click to expand...


Scramble: F2 D' B2 R2 B2 D U2 L2 U' B2 F D2 B D2 R2 U' F R F' L' D'

I would do it like this :

# Cross (intuitive): R' L' F U L R2 B2

# Insert 3x D-layer corners:

1. (RUR')
2. y2U (F'U'F)
3. y' (F'UF)

# Use keyhole to insert 3x E-slice edges:

1. y D' (RU2R')
2. y2D2 (F'U2F)
3. y'D' (RUR') y2D2 (RUR')
4. u2

# Use keyhole to place 4x U-layer edges + 1 remaining E-slice edge
1. U (RU2R')
2. U2 (F'U'F)

# Use keyhole to place 4x U-layer corners + 1 remaining D-slice corner

1. U' (FDF') U (FD'F')
2. (R'D'R) U (R'DR)
3. U' (FDF') U (FD'F')

Note : when it is writen "F", make "L" with left hand instead
 
Eaudevian said:
I would do it like this :

# Insert 3x D-layer corners:

1. (RUR')
2. y2U (F'U'F)
3. y' (F'UF)

# Use keyhole to insert 3x E-slice edges:

1. y D' (RU2R')
2. y2D2 (F'U2F)
3. y'D' (RUR') y2D2 (RUR')
4. u2
Click to expand...

Well I'd personally solve it like this this :p

But when it comes to beginner methods, the smartest way to do it isn't always the best. The most important thing for a beginner is ability to understand. In my experience of teaching keyhole for E-slice edges people just seemed to get confused. Again with the corners, its much smarter to use F' U' F inserts but it is more difficult. Similarly with the final corner inserts, nice technique but I'd imagine an absolute beginner might struggle with it. These extra 'shortcuts' like keyhole can be added later once they've got the basics. Generally, in an absolute beginner method efficiency is of least concern, while comprehensibility is of primary concern.
 
Last edited:
Cride5 said:
Generally, in an absolute beginner method efficiency is of least concern, while comprehensibility is of primary concern.
Click to expand...
I will have to prompt you for more on that.

Personally, I have not been going for that strategy when I teach. My philosophy is more of "easier-to-remember" instead of easier-to-learn or easier-to-understand.
Apart from all those, I often see Shelley/Tyson/Leyan teach "easier-to-continue-learning-Fridrich."

The philosophies don't necessarily counter each other too much, but it definitely influences the steps, algs, and -let's says- mnemonics for teaching. Any opinion on what is best to emphasize?
 
I always go for intuitive-ness - I always tell people that they never ever need a cheat sheet to solve a cube, even for the first few times.

100% intuitive F2L - the exact purpose of every single move is clearly understood; definitely not something like "oh I'm just doing x because I 'know' that y will happen after I do it." Nothing like any of the LBL-based or CF-based beginner methods out there. Hard to explain here :( I've never published the details of this method anywhere.

LL algs and case-recognition have nice stories to make them "intuitive."
 
@Lucas. I guess my approach comes from the situation in which I often find myself teaching it. More often than not I've been at a party or in the pub, someone has seen the cube and asked how to solve it. In these cases the best outcome is simply getting them to manage a single un-aided solve in the shortest possible time. If it takes too long they'll usually lose interest. The question of whether to go for algorithmic vs intuitive really depends on the individual being taught, but I've found the majority of people work better with short (preferably 2-gen) algs, rather than simple intuitive steps like keyhole.

I guess I would adapt what I teach depending on the goals of the individual. For example, for one friend who said he wanted to learn to 'speedsolve' I basically taught him badmephisto's new beginner method. Before I teach anyone though, I always ask them if they really would prefer to be taught than to work it out for themselves. Not doing so myself is my biggest regret in cubing.

@blah I'd be interested in a guide for your method. I'm quite intrigued by intuitive methods. :cool:
 
I've been trying to teach my friend a friend of mine Heise, as she wants to figure out the solution by her own, without memorizing any alorithms. She's done pretty well, but has some problems with commutators. I still this the way to go, as you'll really know what your doing, and you still get this feeling of "true" problem solving from figuring out new commutators.

And by the way, here's a pretty intuitive Roux-like CF system I used for some time (I developed this back in '07, before I heard about Roux, but abandoned it as ineffective after a month or so):

1. Corners first
Pretty self-explanatory. Maybe an old school Waterman kind of technique (http://rubikscube.info/waterman/index.php) would be in a way "intuitive".

2. E-edges
Solving the equator edges using F and M. Pretty staight forward.

3. Orienting the last 8 edges
As the last 6 in Roux.

4. Permutation if the last 8 edges
I used to do this with U, D and R2 moves in combination with algs "M U2 M' U2" and "M2 U2 M2 U2" (but Roux-like solving seems also pretty logical).

Here's an example solution:
Scramble: B' F' D' R' F2 L' R F D U L' R2 U B2 D' B2 U R2 F2 U2 R U' R' F' D2

1. L' F' L' D2 (Ortega step 1) z D (setup move) R U' L' R' U L R U' R' (a nifty Ortega alg I've come up with)

2. x2 F M' F' (Pairing two edges...) M F' M2 F (...and inserting them.) S' M' U' M (Pairing two more edges...) U M' B M2 B' (...and inserting them)

3. S' M' (Fairly obvious) U M U M' U M U M' (normal Roux, I think)

4. R2 U' (Setup to prevent backward progress) M' U2 M (edge 3-cycle, pretty easy to come up with, so I guess it's intuitive) U' R2 (undoing setup, note that the last U2 in the 3-cycle and U equal U') D' (setup) F2 M2 F2 M2 (edge-swap, also easily discovered by beginners) D (undoing setup)
Hope I presented this clearly enaugh...

I think 69 moves is quite an accomplishment for such an intuitive method. I call it intuitive, as the only real alg was done during the first step.
 
Step 3 is probably the hardest part of the method, but this has been discussed before. See:
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14883
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6687

Look closely at the examples posted by Johannes91, and just practice. It's always possible to eventually build two pairs, but it can be difficult to do efficiently. If you remember earlier in the tutorial, Ryan talks about 'alignment' of pieces. Well use this idea to find ways of connecting corners with edges in the top layer (or in the slot). Think of all the ways pairs can be created by doing non-destructive moves (ie R/R' or F/F' with U moves) and try to align corner+edge pieces you see that are a few moves away from being connected.

More general posts on heise here:
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4493
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3174
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?p=330902
 
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