[Help Thread] FMC Discussion

[kinch2002]

PB 33 HTM etc etc

Well done - you're using some nice techniques! The first thing I notice is that your extension to 2x2x3 is long. 7 moves is more that I'd ever settle for.
Using your 2x2x2 without the inserted move:
2x2x2: U L' B' L2 B2
2x2x3: D' F2 D F2 U or U' R2 U F2 U
I might have another look at the scramble later but I don't have time now

 

[porkynator]

(cut)

I think blockbuilding first, and then doing EO+CP (maybe with insertions) would be better for FMC.
But I really like the idea of brute forcing an LL skip < R, U >, it would be nice to see some statistics about the movecount. I don't know the potential it has for FMC, but I think it would be a fun method to practise, just for the satisfaction of solving a cube with only intuitive steps.

 

[Cubenovice]

PB 33 HTM
.........

your 2x2x2 - 6
R2 U F2 U2 R F U F' - F2L-1 - 14
from there work that slot of U R U R' for pseudo F2L with premove R'

 

[Pyjam]

hey, i did a couple zz-FMCs today and yesterday (34, 28, and 31 htm), and i noticed that it is actually a fairly braindead yet effective method to go about it.

ZZ isn't bad but EO without line, then block-building is better, obviously more flexible.
And block-building, then EO is even more flexible, and therefore even better.
And block-building + EO simultaneously is even even more flexible, and therefore even better better.

 

[Selkie]

The first thing I notice is that your extension to 2x2x3 is long. 7 moves is more that I'd ever settle for.

your 2x2x2 - 6
R2 U F2 U2 R F U F' - F2L-1 - 14
from there work that slot of U R U R' for pseudo F2L with premove R'

Many thanks for the feedback gents, it is much very appreciated.

What is very evident from your advise is that my blockbuilding needs a lot of work. Something I am very aware of. having not really used a blockbuilding method and also being blue cross only in CFOP I can very easily miss easy blockbuilding let alone more optimal such as your own suggestions. I have just learned Petrus, not only to improve the block building skills but also forcing myself to be colour neutral for that method to try and ensure my block building does not have colour bias. I am not interested in changing speed method but am getting very interested in FMC and Petrus and Heise seems to be good skills to have.

Following your advise I think I may start doing sessions of just solving 3x2x2 blocks within say a 5 minute time limit looking for 10 move or less solutions.

Cubenovice; You mention the premove of R' - I have not as yet fully understood the addition of a single premove. It is to fully explore other possibilities at the F2L-1 stage and is turning an axis for which none of the solve cube occupies? How also did you derive it R' as opposed to say R or is it simply a process of elimination. Apologies for what might be an obvious question, or one that has been answered a number of times before. but I am very eager to understand any fmc techniques and my brain is a little fried from learning Comms, conjugates, petrus and some heise in the last 10 days

Have to say really enjoying FMC and it is an event that I can hope to constantly improve at even with my sup 40 year old hands

 

[Cubenovice]

Hi selkie,

i see now that I made a litltle error in my post, the premove is already visible at the F2L-1 step
your 2x2x2 - 6
R2 U F2 U2 R F U F' - F2L-1 - 14
take a look at the cube: it is not actually an F2L-1 the "side" colors of the last square do no match those of the 2x2x3
now determine which rotation the face of the square requires to make those sides color correct: R'

thus:
your 2x2x2 - 6
R2 U F2 U2 R F U F' - pseudo F2L-1 - 14 - find premove R'

now if you perform the (inverse in this case) scramble with premove R' you will have a regular F2L-1

btw: I also commented on your weekly comp FMC of last week

 

[Selkie]

take a look at the cube: it is not actually an F2L-1 the "side" colors of the last square do no match those of the 2x2x3

I confess I replied without trying your solution being at work but this explanation is perfect. Whilst playing with Heise I have often found a really nice third block but had to dismiss it because it is built using the LL colour. The premove here would then allow a continuation to be sought to this route. Great, something else for me to play with.

Appreciate you taking the time to explain.

btw: I also commented on your weekly comp FMC of last week

I had not noticed but thanks, I will take a look when I get home though I am hoping my days of CFOP fmc are numbered. I'll probably do an fmc a night and complete this weeks weekly fmc nearer close date to see how much improvement it will give me.

 

[jla]

What is premoves and NISS and how do you use them?

 

[kinch2002]

A load more starts for mustcube FMC 411
B' D' R' L2 F2 L2 R' F2 L R' B U L B2 R' F2 L2 U L' D2 F2 L2 R D2 B F2 L F2 L' U'

Spoiler

Premove: D
2x2x2: B' D' L' D F2
2x2x3: D2 L2 D2 (9)

2x2x2: B' D' L' D F2
F2L-1: D2 L2 D' L' D' L2 B D (13)

2x2x2: B' D' L' D F2
F2L-1: D2 L2 D2 L U B' U' D (13)

Premove: B'
2x2x2: F' R' D' R F'
2x2x3: L D' B2 (9)

 

[guusrs]

What is premoves and NISS and how do you use them?

Check my NISS post here.

 

[jla]

Thank you, I think I understand somewhat. I'll try it tomorrow for the weekly scramble and post here again for feedback

 

[Selkie]

Well I got a DNF in weekly 2012-33 but wanted to finish the solve anyway, final result 38 HTM. Some plus and minus points. I think the block building was better with F2L-1 done in 15 HTM and within about 15 minutes, but I really do need to work hard on F2L-1 stage and learn a few more Heise methodologies. Had I managed to reduce to 3 corners instead of 4 it could have been so much better. If someone sees a better F2L-1 stage that leaves 3 corners I would be very interested in seeing it. In addition being left with 2 comms I really dont feel like I inserted those anywhere near optimally and could have had more cancellations than the single one.

Still it was a fun solve and some new lessons learnt in my new addiction

Spoiler

Scramble: B L2 D2 F2 D2 B R2 D2 B R2 B2 U' R2 F' U' R D L2 R U' L

U' D' L B' D2 //2x2x2
Switch to inverse Premoves D2 B L' D U
U F' R U' R' //2x2x3

//U L2 U2 L U //F2L-1 - Also played with U L U2 L2 U - Problem was three edges were already solved on LL and it my understanding from the heise I have learned and played with that it is a difficult case to solve.

//It then dawned on my the advice given by Cubenovice. Perhaps a premove to misalign one of the F2L blocks at that stage would mean realigning that block would no longer give three solved edges,

hence:-

On inverse, premoves U' (D2 B L' D U)
U F' R U' R //2x2x3
U L2 U2 L U //F2L-1

--Indeed a nicer looking F2L-1 with a pair that could be preserved and even made into a 2x2x1 whilst permuting edges

L2 F' L F L U . L // Leaves 4 corners, bah 4!

R' D' R U' R' D R U // Spotted a direct 8 mover at the end to leave 3 and when I stepped through I didnt find a cancellation

Insert at . = R D2 R' U R D2 R' U' // 1 cancellation

Final solution = U' D' L B' D2 U L' R D2 R' U R D2 R' U2 L' F' L' F L2 U' L' U2 L2 U' R U R' F U' R' D' R U' R' D R U = 38 HTM

 

[Cubenovice]

Thx for reminding me of this use of premoves
It was not quite what i eant though; typically you would use premoves to fix "wrong" blocks instead of deliberately misaligning "right" blocks.

 

[Selkie]

Thx for reminding me of this use of premoves
It was not quite what i eant though; typically you would use premoves to fix "wrong" blocks instead of deliberately misaligning "right" blocks.

Indeed your explanation the other day was perfect and I have been exploring this. The way I used it was my attempt on lateral thinking when I was up with tooth ache in the early hours In reality and with more practice I may have been able to find a better continuation without the premove though.

 

[cubernya]

Could somebody make a backup of IF? Even if it's just the files, I'll be more than willing to host them.

 

[okayama]

Scrambles and my solutions from Cube Camp in Kanazawa 2012. There were two attempts.

1st Scramble: D' L2 D B2 U L2 U B2 U2 B2 U L' D' F' U2 R' D R' U2 F2 R'
1st Solution: L2 B L' B' L' B D2 B' Rw' L' Uw2 L D L' Uw2 L D' Rw D' B R' B U D2 F' R2 B2 (27 HTM)

Spoiler

40 min solution.

(For inverse scramble)
Pre-scramble: L B L B' L2

1st square: B2
2nd & 3rd square: R2 F D2
F2L minus 1 slot: U' B' R B'
All but 3c3e: D * B D2 B'
Correction: L B L B' L2

Insert at *: Rw' (D L' Uw2 L D' L' Uw2 L) Rw

This should have been 26 HTM because the end of the insertion "L Rw" becomes 1 move.
I didn't notice that. Next week I will pay attention.

2nd Scramble: U L2 F2 L2 F2 U' R2 D F2 U2 B L' D L2 R U B L' R2 U L'
2nd Solution: B U' B' F D R U R' U' B2 U' B' R' B R U B2 R U R' D2 R U' R' B' R' B' L F (29 HTM)

Spoiler

30 min backup solution.

Pre-scramble: B2 D2 B' R' B' L F

Two squares: (ready)
F2L minus 1 slot: B U' B' F D B2
Finish F2L: B2 R U R' U' B2
All but 3 corners: U' B' R' B R U
Correction: B2 * D2 B' R' B' L F

Insert at *: R U R' D2 R U' R' D2

 

[Selkie]

New pb, just a random qqtimer scramble, the first in an Ao5 FMC today!

Pleased not only for the pb but also done in 45 mins including insertion. However the scramble felt very easy and had an easy F2L-1 to 3 corners stage. Be interested in someone less novice trying it out.

Scramble: B2 D2 R' F2 U2 R' F2 U2 R' B2 R' B' D U R2 B D F D F2

On inverse:
D2 F' // 2x2x1
D B' D2 // 2x2x2

Switch to normal

Premoves D2 B D' F D2
R' U' F R' // Pseudo Block
F' L F L' // F2L-1
F2 . R2 D R D' // F2L
U F L F' L' F' // Leaves 3 corners

Insert @ . = D' L' D R2 D' L D R2 = 3 cancellations

Final Solution = R' U' F R' F' L F L' F2 D' L' D R2 D' L D2 R D' U F L F' L' U' F' D2 B D' F D2 = 30 HTM

 

[Cubenovice]

Scramble: B2 D2 R' F2 U2 R' F2 U2 R' B2 R' B' D U R2 B D F D F2

normal scramble
F' D . R' U' R2 - 2 squares 5
B U2 F - 2x2x3 8
but
B U2 R F - 2x2x3 9
R D2 R2 - pseudo F2L-1
D B' D2 B R2 - leaves 5 corners 17
should be sub 30 with insertions

but
B U2 R2 F - 2x2x3 9
D B R2 B' - make pair 13
D R2 D' R2 - 17
leaves 2 flipped edges and three twisted corners
When permuted right this can be solves in 9 moves so let's find an insertion for a super duper end result

Unfortunately no correct permutation, best was 2 set up moves:
At . insert L2 B R' U' R2 B' R' B2 U' B' U2 B' L2 for a grand total of 30 htm

 

[Selkie]

leaves 2 flipped edges and three twisted corners
When permuted right this can be solves in 9 moves so let's find an insertion for a super duper end result

Well I was considering starting to learn the <=9 move LL algs, already knowing full OLL will make it easier. This alg is even more reason too. lovely.

Some great looking block building too.

 

[porkynator]

2 hours of headache, best solution I got: 44 HTM :fp
B D' R2 F' U' B' R' F R D' L2 U2 B R2 D2 F D2 F' B2 R2 B2

Spoiler

Premove: B
F L2 U //2x2x1 (3/3)
D2 R L' U R' L' U2 R D' R2 D //3x2x2 (11/14)
U R2 U' F' U F //F2L-1 (6/20)
R' U F' U' F //EO + 1 pair (5/25)
R F R2 F' //Another pair (4/29)
* R B' R2 F R F' R2 B2 //Pair 3-cycle + adjust premove (8/37)
Insert at *: B L' B' R2 B L B' R2 (8-1/44)
Solution: F L2 U D2 R L' U R' L' U2 R D' R2 D U R2 U' F' U F R' U F' U' F R F R2 F' B L' B' R2 B L B' R' B' R2 F R F' R2 B2 (44 HTM)

Can someone find a better start?