[Help Thread] FMC Discussion

[eeeeeeeee]

How do i create a dr on another axis for htr? I kinda understand quater turns but sometimes i need to break dr. pls help i have watched tom nelson's video 10 times. also this is kinda ded lol

 

[xyzzy]

How do i create a dr on another axis for htr? I kinda understand quater turns but sometimes i need to break dr. pls help i have watched tom nelson's video 10 times. also this is kinda ded lol

Most of the old resources are mostly bad (*) and newcomers shouldn't have to suffer through them the way we did. Try this instead:

Hitchhiker's Guide to HTR

Hitchhiker’s Guide to HTR Yurii Riabov, July, 2024 In this guide I will explain what is HTR, how to recognize its cases(subsets), briefly explain how to solve each case, explain how to solve after HTR, and then go in depth to tips for specific HTR cases. I will use information from Jay’s video...

docs.google.com

Extremely broad overview:
1. Learn how to recognise corner quarter turn (qt) count. This is super important.
2. Learn how to reduce corner qt count.
3. On 4a1 4e, turn the cube sideways (**) and try to set up to the R trigger as if you're doing DR, but you're only allowed to do half turns while setting up. On 4b2 2e, turn the cube sideways (**) and try to set up to the R U2 R' trigger as if you're doing DR; again, you're only allowed to do half turns while setting up. On anything else, try to get to 4a1 4e or 4b2 2e first.

(*) By "bad" I mean that they're not as good as what we have now, not that they were truly terrible.
(**) I used to do that because I had more practice with setting up DR triggers but now I find it easier to recognise HTR cases with the DR axis vertical. There's a roughly even split between whether people prefer to recognise HTR cases on UD or on LR, and there is exactly one weirdo who recognises it from white-top green-front regardless of axis.

 

[eeeeeeeee]

Most of the old resources are mostly bad (*) and newcomers shouldn't have to suffer through them the way we did. Try this instead:

Hitchhiker's Guide to HTR

Hitchhiker’s Guide to HTR Yurii Riabov, July, 2024 In this guide I will explain what is HTR, how to recognize its cases(subsets), briefly explain how to solve each case, explain how to solve after HTR, and then go in depth to tips for specific HTR cases. I will use information from Jay’s video...

docs.google.com

Extremely broad overview:
1. Learn how to recognise corner quarter turn (qt) count. This is super important.
2. Learn how to reduce corner qt count.
3. On 4a1 4e, turn the cube sideways (**) and try to set up to the R trigger as if you're doing DR, but you're only allowed to do half turns while setting up. On 4b2 2e, turn the cube sideways (**) and try to set up to the R U2 R' trigger as if you're doing DR; again, you're only allowed to do half turns while setting up. On anything else, try to get to 4a1 4e or 4b2 2e first.

(*) By "bad" I mean that they're not as good as what we have now, not that they were truly terrible.
(**) I used to do that because I had more practice with setting up DR triggers but now I find it easier to recognise HTR cases with the DR axis vertical. There's a roughly even split between whether people prefer to recognise HTR cases on UD or on LR, and there is exactly one weirdo who recognises it from white-top green-front regardless of axis.

OMG THANKS SO MUCH KUDOS TO CREATER

 

[tseitsei]

Just dropping this here in case someone wants to learn FMC:

Hitchhiker's Guide to FMC.docx

Hitchhiker’s Guide to FMC Yurii Riabov, March, 2024 In this guide, I'll try to explain the iceberg that is the Fewest Moves Challenge - it's very easy to start, but no matter how deep you dig, there's always something new. I will describe step-by-step CFOP method (relatively easy to solve sub40)...

docs.google.com

It really is the only resource you need to get from complete beginner to sub23 average. It contains links to most currently up to date resources used by top FMCers. By far the most valuable document in the world for anyone who wants to learn FMC. Huge shoutout to Yura Riabov for putting it together.

 

[eeeeeeeee]

1 more thing: what do the two numbers at the end of reconstructions mean? like // 0/1

 

[Bingus cuber]

1 more thing: what do the two numbers at the end of reconstructions mean? like // 0/1

The first number is the number of moves in that step, the second number is the number of moves of the solve so far.
For example 6/19
Maybe 6 moves for an F2L pair, and 19 moves in total so far.

 

[eeeeeeeee]

The first number is the number of moves in that step, the second number is the number of moves of the solve so far.
For example 6/19
Maybe 6 moves for an F2L pair, and 19 moves in total so far.

thanks

 

[FMCubing55]

practiced in FMC and got a DR in 10 moves. I don't how to do HTR in this situation(

Scramble: R' U' F D' L2 B2 U2 B2 U B2 U2 L2 F2 U' L' F L' B D U R B2 L2 D2 R' U' F
L B' L' D' F // EO (5/5)
R' (D L D L) // DR (5/10)

please, help me in this problem

 

[xyzzy]

practiced in FMC and got a DR in 10 moves. I don't how to do HTR in this situation(

Scramble: R' U' F D' L2 B2 U2 B2 U B2 U2 L2 F2 U' L' F L' B D U R B2 L2 D2 R' U' F
L B' L' D' F // EO (5/5)
R' (D L D L) // DR (5/10)

please, help me in this problem

First, check the HTR case:
1. Parity is even (corner permutation is 7+1).
2. Corner shape is 4a.
3. Corner shape on inverse is also 4a.
4. Four bad edges.
Therefore the HTR case you have is 4a2qt 4e. This case is usually either great or absolute garbage, no in between.

On normal, R2 F2 sets up directly to the 4a2 4e trigger (two squares):
L B' L' D' F // EO (5/5)
R' (D L D L) // DR 4a2 4e (5/10)
R2 F2 U R2 U2 F2 D // HTR (7-1/16)
// looks bad, probably find another HTR

Note that R2 B2 also sets up to the same trigger and leads to a somewhat nicer finish:
L B' L' D' F // EO (5/5)
R' (D L D L) // DR 4a2 4e (5/10)
R2 B2 U B2 U2 R2 D' // HTR (7-1/16)
B2 @ R2 F2 // 2e2e + slice (3/19)
@ = U2 F2 R2 F2 U2 R2 F2 R2 // leave slice (8-4/23)
// better but still not great

We can also switch to inverse:
L B' L' D' F // EO (5/5)
R (D L D L) // DR 4a2 4e (5/10)
(U L2 U2 L2 B2 U) // HTR (6/16)
(R2 F2 B2 R2 B2) // fin (5/21)
This HTR has (at least) four different variations, and only one of them (the one I wrote above) has a short finish. In fact, this is the optimal finish from your DR.

In a real attempt you'd probably also want to check 1qt on normal + 1qt on inverse.

 

[FMCubing55]

First, check the HTR case:
1. Parity is even (corner permutation is 7+1).
2. Corner shape is 4a.
3. Corner shape on inverse is also 4a.
4. Four bad edges.
Therefore the HTR case you have is 4a2qt 4e. This case is usually either great or absolute garbage, no in between.

On normal, R2 F2 sets up directly to the 4a2 4e trigger (two squares):
L B' L' D' F // EO (5/5)
R' (D L D L) // DR 4a2 4e (5/10)
R2 F2 U R2 U2 F2 D // HTR (7-1/16)
// looks bad, probably find another HTR

Note that R2 B2 also sets up to the same trigger and leads to a somewhat nicer finish:
L B' L' D' F // EO (5/5)
R' (D L D L) // DR 4a2 4e (5/10)
R2 B2 U B2 U2 R2 D' // HTR (7-1/16)
B2 @ R2 F2 // 2e2e + slice (3/19)
@ = U2 F2 R2 F2 U2 R2 F2 R2 // leave slice (8-4/23)
// better but still not great

We can also switch to inverse:
L B' L' D' F // EO (5/5)
R (D L D L) // DR 4a2 4e (5/10)
(U L2 U2 L2 B2 U) // HTR (6/16)
(R2 F2 B2 R2 B2) // fin (5/21)
This HTR has (at least) four different variations, and only one of them (the one I wrote above) has a short finish. In fact, this is the optimal finish from your DR.

In a real attempt you'd probably also want to check 1qt on normal + 1qt on inverse.

Thank you very much

 

[abunickabhi]

Does anyone use Heise method in 2025, or we just directly focus on DR, if we want to learn advanced FMC techniques?

 

[SkewbIsTheBestEvent]

Does anyone use Heise method in 2025, or we just directly focus on DR, if we want to learn advanced FMC techniques?

Dr is the best by far

 

[ottozing]

19 21 21 = 20.33 OcR/WR5 reconstructions

Spoiler: 19

A1 - R' U' F U' B2 R2 D2 R2 F2 D F2 B' U F' L R2 F2 U R D L2 B' R' U' F

U' B D - EO 3/3
B' L' U2 L B' L B' - DR 7/10
(B2 L^ U2 R^' B2 R') - HTR 6/16
(B2 D2 L^2) - M 3/19

^ - w // Solved in 19

Optimal from EO

Spoiler: 21

A2 - R' U' F D' B L F R' D2 B U R' U2 L2 U2 F2 U R2 U2 F2 U' F R' U' F

(B F2 U' F') // EO 4/4
(U' L U2 L' U D) // DR 6/10
D2 R' D2 R' B2 D2 R' // HTR 7/17
L2 U D F2 U2 B2 U D // Solved 8-4/21

One move worse than optimal from the first 5 moves on inverse, but there's only one +15 and it doesn't use DR at all

Spoiler: 21

A3 - R' U' F U2 F2 R' U2 B2 R F2 D2 L2 B' R F2 L2 D B' R2 B D' R B2 R' U' F

(B R' B' D' F) // EO 5/5
L2 U2 L2 R D // DR 5/10
(R) D' U' L2 U' D L' // HTR 7-2/15
U2 D2 B2 R2 U2 // M 5/20

... U' L2 U' D [L' U2 D2 B2 R2] U2 R' F' D ...

[] = R' F2 B2 U2 L' R' // Solved in 21

Bonus

(B R' B' D' F)
R2 D2 R' D // 9 move version of the DR
(R D2 B2 L2 F2 L') // HTR in 15
(D2 B2 U2 B2) // M in 19 but somehow optimal is +3 which is extremely unlucky!!!

My solution is at least optimal from the set of 3 DR's that come from this EO and continue on normal (doing U2 L2 U2 R D on normal being the 3rd option, both this and the 9 move DR are 22 optimal)

 

[abunickabhi]

 

[abunickabhi]

 

[Silky]

Does anyone know the official unofficial rules for FMC no cube? Main question is if you are allowed a picture of the scramble and/or inverse scramble.

 

[ottozing]

I lowered the 5x5 FMC UWR today with a slightly new method compared to what trangium and paul are doing (though this particular solve isn't the best showcase since I got a mostly useless L4C skip). Final result was 94 moves across a 3-4 hour time window with short 5-10 min breaks

 Twizzle link 

 Setup 

Rw' Uw D Lw2 Dw Fw' B' Uw' F2 L' Bw2 Fw2 L2 Rw D2 U' B Fw L U Bw' L2 Uw' Lw' Dw Lw' R Bw' R2 L' Fw' Uw2 L2 Dw B Rw' Uw L Bw' B Dw B' F2 L Bw' D2 Bw2 Rw F' U' Lw' Fw2 Dw R2 Dw' R L Lw D2 Bw

 Moves 

R Fw2 R Fw U' Bw' F' U2 Bw
Dw U2 B' R' Uw2 Rw U2 L' Rw'
Dw Rw2 F' R Dw' F Dw // Center stuff

B R' F Rw2
U2 F Lw' F R F' Rw'
Uw' B U' B' Uw U D L R2 D' Lw
F R F' Rw'
F2 R2 F' D L D' Rw2 R2 D' // L4E in 60

Bw' B2 F R2 D2 Bw' B F' R2 Fw2 U2 Bw F' B' U2 R2 D2 Bw2 F2 U2 B2 R2 F2 B2 // L4E cancelled with DR found from inverse

D' B D2 L2 B F' R F' D B2 // 94

Below is the solve I did the day before which better showcases the general goals of the methods substeps (still too "HTR center-ish" but you can at least see towards the entry point of L4E why "bars" centers is even better than HTR centers while you're still on F8E)

alg.cubing.net

alg.cubing.net

Still not sure how to evaluate the usefulness of being able to NISS for L4E+DR stuff. I can't tell if I'm bad at slicing them together, not trying enough things to get sufficiently lucky, or if I should just focus on doing 3x3 stage with maximum NISS for EO+DR for a better overall result (another possible middle ground is just doing DR+HTR all from inverse, switch back to L4E stuff on normal until the L4E is also in HTR & just take it from there somehow)

Main reason I'm quite happy with this general approach; You don't need to trace wing parity or account for it at any point! I remember losing at least one 5x5 FMC from this by going 30-40 moves deep only to realize I had parity The barrier to entry still isn't great since you need to know DR>HTR pretty well, but there's gotta be some compromise somewhere if you want quality solves!

6x6 and 7x7 next, might push for sub 90 5x5 after we'll see

 

[abunickabhi]

 

[Adm_cb]

U2 in FMC is only 1 move right??
And what do I need to learn in FMC as a beginner?

 

[bluecubing]

U2 in FMC is only 1 move right??
And what do I need to learn in FMC as a beginner?

Yes U2 is only one move. Just watch a bunch of videos