[Help Thread] FMC Discussion

[Theo Leinad]

I took this 2010 old scramble I think and tried myself to do the best I could.
I had up to the F2L in 30 mins, and had problems with Niklas and Last 3 corners for about 45 mins.
Who can help me with insertions/commutators on this?
Should be easy for someone experienced FMCuber
Thanks.


[Scramble] D L2 U' R2 D' L2 U R2 F2 U2 B2 F' U2 L' D R B2 U' F2 D' R'
['iS'] R D F2 U B2 R' D' L U2 F B2 U2 F2 R2 U' L2 D R2 U L2 D'

***
R2 B2 F' D U' R U' (2x2x2) - 7
L' B2 L2 (2x2x3) - 10
B D2 L B' L' (F2L-1) - 15
D B' D' B R' B' R (F2L) - 22
L B' R' B L' B' (Niklas/OLL) - 28
U R' D2 R U' R' D2 R2 B' (Last3C) - (1 cancelled move) = TOTAL 37
***

 

[Theo Leinad]

From Weekly competition 2011-12:
I found the following skeleton very quickly, maybe within 5 min (still not sub 25, though).
I'd like to team up with you in a competition, ha-ha.

Scramble: U2 B D' B R U2 R U' R2 B D R2 U L B R D' R
Solution: L F D L' D B' R U R' U2 B' R B R' U R U D' F2 D B2 D' F2 D U2 (25 HTM)

Pre-scramble: U2 B2 U2

2x2x2 block: L F D L' D (Guus's start)
2x2x3 block: B'
F2L minus 1 slot: R U R' U2
More 2x2x1 block: B' R B
All but 3 corners: R' U R U'
Correction: U2 * B2 U2

Insert at *: D' F2 D B2 D' F2 D B2
Good luck on your next competition, Guus!

Hey Okayama,
So I've been checking the full thread, 28/208 pages...
I saw this scramble and wanted to give it a try, could you help with LL?
I just can't found something useful...

[Scramble] U2 B D' B R U2 R U' R2 B D R2 U L B R D' R
[R] premove +1
L D L' D (2x2x2) – (4 mins past) - 4 moves
B2 R' B' R U2 (2x2x3) – (20 mins past) 9 moves
B R' B R2 (F2L with premove) – (40 mins past) 13+1 (premove)

...and 20 mins to go for a LL

 

[guysensei1]

weekly, 28

Spoiler

s: L' U' L2 R2 D2 B U2 F' D2 L2 R U' D2 L2 B2 U' L' D' R L2

inv,
D' //lots of pairs
switch,
D' F2 R2//2x2x1+preserve pair
F' D//2 cross edges
L2 F2 L F2//2x2x3
B'//F2L-1
U2 L' B L B'//complete F2L
B U2 B' U' * B U' B' //3C
*=U' R2 U L U' R2 U L'

only one move cancels... and it was optimal, sigh

 

[Ksh13]

Daily scramble from Reddit, 29, PB by quite a bit.

Spoiler

B2 L2 B U R' D' B' U F2 L2 F2 D' R F' L2 F' L U' R' D2

U' F2 L B' L2 B' // Pseudo 2x2x3 (6/6)
(R F R' U B D' B') // F2L-1 (7/13)
(D2 F' D2 F D L D L') // To L3C (8/21)

U' F2 L B' L2 B' L D' L' D' @ F' D2' F D2' B D B' U' R F' R'

@ = [R' U2 R, D]

Final solution: U' F2 L B' L2 B' L D' L' D' R' U2 R D R' U2 R D' F' D2' F D2' B D B' U' R F' R' (29)

According to IF optimal is 28

 

[Elo13]

Same daily scramble as Ksh13, would be pb but not counting since looked up the CR2 alg.

Spoiler

B2 L2 B U R' D' B' U F2 L2 F2 D' R F' L2 F' L U' R' D2

U' F2 // pseudo 2x2x2 (2/2)
L B' L2 D B' // 2x2x3 (5/7)
L2 B D' B' // EOF2L-1 (4/11)
D' L D // CR1 (3/14)
L2 F2 U2 R2 U R2 U F2 L2 // CR2 (9/23)
L U' // premove (2-1/24)

Luckiest solve I've had. Easy 2x2x3, square done after EO, CR3 skip

 

[Theo Leinad]

Same daily scramble as Ksh13, would be pb but not counting since looked up the CR2 alg.

Spoiler

B2 L2 B U R' D' B' U F2 L2 F2 D' R F' L2 F' L U' R' D2

U' F2 // pseudo 2x2x2 (2/2)
L B' L2 D B' // 2x2x3 (5/7)
L2 B D' B' // EOF2L-1 (4/11)
D' L D // CR1 (3/14)
L2 F2 U2 R2 U R2 U F2 L2 // CR2 (9/23)
L U' // premove (2-1/24)

Luckiest solve I've had. Easy 2x2x3, square done after EO, CR3 skip

Hey Elo, how did you found that premove? at what moment you realize you needed to place a premove in the scramble?

 

[Elo13]

Hey Elo, how did you found that premove? at what moment you realize you needed to place a premove in the scramble?

When I did U' F2, I noticed I had a pseudo 2x2x2 block. U' would solve the square, so adding it before the scramble gives me a normal 2x2x2.
When I did EO I noticed I had a pseudo F2L-1. L would solve the square, so adding it before the other premove gives me normal F2L-1.
When I finished the solve I took the premoves from the beginning of the scramble and added them to the end of the solve.

 

[Theo Leinad]

A while ago I asked about 4-corner insertions. Thanks to everyone who responded, I got a 9-move 4-corner insertion for NAR

(reposted from MIT Fall)

scramble: D F2 D' L2 D' L' F D2 F2 U' B2 D' R2 D L D2 U R2 (18f)

Spoiler

solution: D' F2 D F2 R L F' R' F L' B R B' R' D2 L' U R D2 L' U' L D L' U L (26f)

inverse scramble: R2 U' D2 L' D' R2 D B2 U F2 D2 F' L D L2 D F2 D'
D R' U' L / D2 R B R' B' / F' R * F R' F2 D' F2 D (17 skeleton)
insert at * R' F L F' R F L' F', 6 moves cancel
insert at beginning L' U' L D' L' U L D, 1 move cancels -> 26

Can anyone find better insertions? I had about 7 minutes left when I found the 17 skeleton, I was about to submit a 31 solution based on
(inverse) D R' U' L / D2 R B R' B' / B' R F2 R' B (13 xxxcross), NISS -> F2 R F2 R' F2 R F2 R' / R F U F' U' R' (24 skeleton)

Hey I was checking old posts, found this Scramble and wanted to give it a try...

( premove D' )
Scramble D F2 D' L2 D' L' F D2 F2 U' B2 D' R2 D L D2 U R2 (18f)

F D2 L' (2x2x2) -4
R' U' F L' U L (2x2x3) -6
R U2 R' U' R2 (F2L-1) - 5

Got into F2L-Corner in 15HTM
But I need to understand how to finish this skeletons...
Guidance would be much appreciated...
I have my first FMC in 3 weeks... not below 50 moves because I always end up with OLL + PLL...

 

[Hssandwich]

I retried FMC Europe scramble 2:

R' U' F L U2 F2 L' F2 R' F2 L' F2 L B D2 L' F' R U' L2 B' L' U' R' U' F

L' B L U F //EO
U L2 // pseudo 222
R2 D // roux block + pair
U R' // solve edges
B2 U B2 U // bad 6
Insertion finder did some wacky 4c embedded insertion and a regular 3c one that cancelled 1, ending with 28.
29 is optimal with only 3c insertions.

 

[T1_M0]

Hi! I'm kinda stuck at over 40 with my solves. I'd like to have a hint on how to get better.

So, my solutions are quite the same every time. I do always 2x2 block, then 2x2x3 and f2l-1 which I can reach in about 20 moves. It's okay for me but the real problem is the continuations. I always check possible cfop endings and insertions, usually with multiple f2l-1 solutions I've found. The continuation from f2l-1 gets easily to 25 moves: sometimes the best I find is cfop ending with 15-move pll, sometimes it's multiple edge insertions to f2l-1. My pb is 38 and there was 6 moves cancel.

What techniques should I try? Does eo help a lot? Could I somehow force more pieces solved in f2l-1? I haven't quite figured out how eo works/what moves I have to do to get the right pieces flipped.

I'd appreciate any help with this. Thanks!

 

[Theo Leinad]

Hi! I'm kinda stuck at over 40 with my solves. I'd like to have a hint on how to get better.

So, my solutions are quite the same every time. I do always 2x2 block, then 2x2x3 and f2l-1 which I can reach in about 20 moves. It's okay for me but the real problem is the continuations. I always check possible cfop endings and insertions, usually with multiple f2l-1 solutions I've found. The continuation from f2l-1 gets easily to 25 moves: sometimes the best I find is cfop ending with 15-move pll, sometimes it's multiple edge insertions to f2l-1. My pb is 38 and there was 6 moves cancel.

What techniques should I try? Does eo help a lot? Could I somehow force more pieces solved in f2l-1? I haven't quite figured out how eo works/what moves I have to do to get the right pieces flipped.

I'd appreciate any help with this. Thanks!

Hi Timo...
I'm at the same spot...
So I figured out the follow:

1. 2x2x2
2. 2x2x3
3. F2L-1
4. Try following options:

• a. F2L -> OLL -PLL
• b. F2L take out pair and insert again rotating Upper layer (There's 3 possible options to insert the F2L)
• c. EO -> L3C or L4C or L5C -> (PLL/insertions)
• d. 1LLL (try with the 10 HTM cases first)

Step 4b gives you 9 different options for OLL so maybe one gives you a skip, checking the whole situations will be time consuming, but if you're quick, it's worth trying.

I'm not sure of other options yet, I'm at the same point than you, maybe a little more ahead.
I'll recommend to learn the next things:

1. Commutators (rotate 3 corners) 8 HTM (about 18 cases I think)
2. 1LLL (Learn the 10HTM last layer cases)

If you, or someone has the graphic version of above point 1 and 2 (to learn), please share here so we can start with that
If you would like, we can set up FMC sessions via skype, to learn how to do it both and help us each other...

 

[T1_M0]

If you would like, we can set up FMC sessions via skype, to learn how to do it both and help us each other...

I like that...

 

[Elo13]

Does eo help a lot?

In my opinion, yes. I almost always do eo after 2x2x3. I gives more options for the rest of the solve. I usually try get to F2L-1 and then solve all edges. Then I will use commutators for the last 3-5 corners.

 

[xyzzy]

What techniques should I try? Does eo help a lot? Could I somehow force more pieces solved in f2l-1? I haven't quite figured out how eo works/what moves I have to do to get the right pieces flipped.

I do EO in the majority of my solves, either at the start (as in ZZ) or after a 223 block. I don't know if it's actually better, but it's usually easier to continue with the edges oriented, and often, solving the last five edges after F2L-1 is just a matter of inserting the last F2L edge in a different way.

4. Try following options:

• a. F2L -> OLL -PLL
• b. F2L take out pair and insert again rotating Upper layer (There's 3 possible options to insert the F2L)
• c. EO -> L3C or L4C or L5C -> (PLL/insertions)
• d. 1LLL (try with the 10 HTM cases first)

I really only use c and d, among these. Looking at my past results on the weekly FMC site, 13 attempts used only corner insertions, 3 attempts used 1LLL, and 2 attempts used weird insertions.

Learning the ≤10-move algs for 1LLL is probably overkill if your goal is just to get to sub-40, as they show up very rarely (unless you try to force them!).

If you restrict yourself to the EO cases (i.e. ZBLL), I think there are around 20 cases that can be done in ≤10 moves, and most of them are actually pretty nice, in that you could learn them for speedsolving, so you don't have to put in additional effort to refresh your memory.

On the other hand, if you include the cases with flipped edges, the algs are all over the place and most of them are bad for speedsolving, so you'll have to make a dedicated effort just to keep the algs in memory.

 

[T1_M0]

In my opinion, yes. I almost always do eo after 2x2x3. I gives more options for the rest of the solve. I usually try get to F2L-1 and then solve all edges. Then I will use commutators for the last 3-5 corners.

I really only use c and d, among these. Looking at my past results on the weekly FMC site, 13 attempts used only corner insertions, 3 attempts used 1LLL, and 2 attempts used weird insertions.

But how do I learn eo, is it good to start doing it only after f2l-1? And it doesn't solve/permute the edges, right? I mean, don't you still have to find edge commutators?

 

[xyzzy]

But how do I learn eo, is it good to start doing it only after f2l-1? And it doesn't solve/permute the edges, right? I mean, don't you still have to find edge commutators?

Edge commutators are easy. You probably already know this one: R U R' U'. Or maybe R U' R' U, or R U2 R' U2.

I don't recall the statistics offhand, but around half of the time, you can permute the edges with just a single trigger and at most two setup moves, so that's 5 moves for edge permutation once you have EO done.

 

[Elo13]

But how do I learn eo, is it good to start doing it only after f2l-1? And it doesn't solve/permute the edges, right? I mean, don't you still have to find edge commutators?

I usually do EO after 2x2x3 because you have more freedom and can do it in less moves. It also makes getting to F2L-1 a bit easier and you're more likely to get lucky.

 

[Theo Leinad]

Guys you're helping a lot, so for now I'll stick for commutators and learn proper EO...

I've seen couple of videos, but is there a way to do comms easy? (Or to learnhow to do them easily)
My issue is with the orientation of the corners...

 

[okayama]

Hey Okayama,
So I've been checking the full thread, 28/208 pages...
I saw this scramble and wanted to give it a try, could you help with LL?
I just can't found something useful...

[Scramble] U2 B D' B R U2 R U' R2 B D R2 U L B R D' R
[R] premove +1
L D L' D (2x2x2) – (4 mins past) - 4 moves
B2 R' B' R U2 (2x2x3) – (20 mins past) 9 moves
B R' B R2 (F2L with premove) – (40 mins past) 13+1 (premove)

...and 20 mins to go for a LL

Immediate finish after F2L might be:

B' * R D + B D' B' R (L4C)
R' (premove correction)

Insert at *: U R D' R' U' R D R'
Insert at +: D F D' B' D F' D' B

results in 30 moves.

 

[Theo Leinad]

My first PB (under 30 mins)

D' U' L2 B2 L2 F2 D' L' R' B L' U2 L2 D R B2 F' D2 U2

U' R' B R2 (2x2x1) - 4
F2 B R B' (2x2x2) - 4
F2 U L D' L' U' (2x2x3) - 6
F' D2 F L' D' F L2 F' (F2L-1) - 8
L' D2 L B D' B' (EO) - 6
R U2 R' D R U2 R' D' (L3C) - 8
TOTAL 36

I took this Scramble from the thread...
The L3C could be done somewhere within the solution, but I don't have stickers to check it...
I just applied some commutator I saw in internet and I'm still learning...

Sorry for the consecutive posts, I just want to revive a little bit this topic since I have a comp next week

Would be 32 with insertion finder...

U' R' B R2 F2 B R B' F2 U L D' L' U' F' [@1] D2 F L' D' F L2 F' L' D2 L B D' B'
Insert at @1: F U' F' D' F U F' D
Fewest moves: 32. 4 moves cancelled
The final solution: U' R' B R2 F2 B R B' F2 U L D' L' U2 F' D' F U F' D' F L' D' F L2 F' L' D2 L B D' B'