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[Help Thread] FMC Discussion

xyzzy said:
You don't really need full OLL or COLL (or god forbid, full ZBLL); last layer algs that are longer than 10 moves are very rarely useful unless you one-look the last layer. The most useful LL alg is really just Sune/Antisune (R U R' U R U2 R'); you can use Sunes to solve the edges and then commutators to solve the last few corners. (Exception: if you get Z perm edges, you can't solve that with a single Sune.)

In fact, when you reach the last slot, what you should do isn't even so much to solve the whole pair (unless it's already formed), but to solve the last five edges. This leaves at most five corners unsolved, and you can proceed to writing out your skeleton (all the moves you've done so far in the correct order, including those on inverse) and stepping through it to insert commutators.

Something I forgot to mention in the previous post was that you really should use optimal algs for the easy cases. The pi OCLL case can be done with R U2 R2 U' R2 U' R2 U2 R or its mirror, which is shorter than the 12-move alg you used. Most PLLs are useless, but do learn optimal algs for at least U perm (9f), H perm (9f), and T perm (10f). (The standard A perm algs and the <R,U,L> J perm algs are already optimal.)
Click to expand...
You should almost always look for insertions rather than using an A perm, unless there's crazy cancellations.
 
an attempt I did for a video, pretty good for me :)
scramble: R' U' F R2 U2 L B2 L' B2 R' B2 L' B2 D2 B D B2 U B2 L2 B' R' U2 F' U R

D' R' F U L' R' D // 2x2x2 block
B L' B' L2 B2 // 2x2x3 block
L' U' L' U2 L' // F2L-1
F U F2 // LS (canceling into OLL)
L F2 R' F2 L' F2 R F // finish OLL (canceling into PLL)
L2 F' R' F L2 F' R F' // finish PLL
36 moves (finished with 20:04 left of the clock)
I should really learn some real techniques, but I'm lazy
 
Weekly FMC, 27
Scramble: U2 R2 D2 L B2 D R2 B' U L R' U D B' R2 F L R' D2 B
F2 D F' U//1x2x3 (4/4)
inverse,
B' F R F' U F'//2x2x3 (6/10)
U B' U' L B2 L2 //F2L-1 (6/16)
B U B2 U' B'//Tripod block (5/21)
L' B L B' L U' L' U//lol (8/29)
2 moves cancel
final: F2 D F' L U L' B L' B' L B U B2 U' B' L2 B2 L' U B U' F U' F R' F' B
 
guysensei1 said:
Weekly FMC, 27
Scramble: U2 R2 D2 L B2 D R2 B' U L R' U D B' R2 F L R' D2 B
F2 D F' U//1x2x3 (4/4)
inverse,
B' F R F' U F'//2x2x3 (6/10)
U B' U' L B2 L2 //F2L-1 (6/16)
B U B2 U' B'//Tripod block (5/21)
L' B L B' L U' L' U//lol (8/29)
2 moves cancel
final: F2 D F' L U L' B L' B' L B U B2 U' B' L2 B2 L' U B U' F U' F R' F' B
Click to expand...

I found 24:
+ F2 D//2x2x1
R B' U'//2x2x1
F2 D2 B2 F//Pseudo F2L-1
( R U F')//Finish F2L
(F U2 F' U2 F' L F L' U)//AB3C

+: L' B2 L F2 L' B2 L F2

Final: L' B2 L F2 L' B2 L D R B' U' F2 D2 B2 F U' L F' L' F U2 F U R'
(24HTM)
 
From the German Forum:



1. R' U' F L2 B' R2 F2 L2 D2 U2 B' R U' R U2 B U2 F' L' B' F2 D' R' U' F
L2 R2 more pairs,
(R F') orient corners,
(R F2 D R2 B F' U2 R') domino reduction, :)
( B2 R2 D R2 B2 U' . D') AB3E,
. = R' L B2 R L' D2
Final solution: L2 R2 D' L R' B2 L' R U B2 R2 D' R2 B2 R U2 F B' R2 D' F2 R' F R'
 
guysensei1 said:
Weekly FMC, 27
Scramble: U2 R2 D2 L B2 D R2 B' U L R' U D B' R2 F L R' D2 B
F2 D F' U//1x2x3 (4/4)
inverse,
B' F R F' U F'//2x2x3 (6/10)
U B' U' L B2 L2 //F2L-1 (6/16)
B U B2 U' B'//Tripod block (5/21)
L' B L B' L U' L' U//lol (8/29)
2 moves cancel
final: F2 D F' L U L' B L' B' L B U B2 U' B' L2 B2 L' U B U' F U' F R' F' B
Click to expand...
LOL found the exact same solution

Fun fact about that solution:
much more logical ab3c skeleton:
F2 D F' U (4/4)
( F B' R F' U2 B' U' F' L B2 L2 B U B2 U' B' L' B L B L U' L' U) (24/28)
Congrats we found a 8-7=1 insertion
 
Solution for weekly:
F2 D // square
R B' U' // another square
F2 D2 B2 F2 // psF2L-1
R' premove
F' U' F U2 F R' F' R U // L4C
skele: F2 D R B' U' F2 D2 B2 F * U' F U2 F R' F' R U R' ^
Insert at *: F' D' F U F' D F U'
Insert at ^: R U' R' D' R U R' D
Final solution: F2 D R B' U' F2 D2 B2 D' F U F' D F U2 F U2 F R' F' D' R U R' D (25)

Missed the 24 that Parham Saeednia found, but I don't really care lol
 
Weekly Solve.
Any tips you could give me? Thanks!
Moves between brackets are done on inverse scramble.
Scramble: U2 R2 D2 L B2 D R2 B' U L R' U D B' R2 F L R' D2 B
Inverse: B' D2 R L' F' R2 B D' U' R L' U' B R2 D' B2 L' D2 R2 U2

(F R) //2x2x1
(D2 F') //2x2x1
U' F R U2 F R2 D //2x2x3 + 2x2x1, almost F2L-1
(R B' R B) //2 pairs
B2 //F2L-1 pseudo, premove B
(B') //Premove
(D' R' D) //2x2x1
R' U R2 D' R' D R2 U' R //Pair 3-cycle to L3C
+
B' D' B U' B' D B U //Comm.
Backup solve ^. 37 HTM

Skeleton:
U' F R U2 F R2 D B2 R' U R2 D' R' D R2 U' R D' R D R' B R' F D2 R' F' (27 HTM)

Insertion:
U' F R U2 F R2 D B2 R' U R2 (R' D2 R U' R' D2 R U) D' R' D R2 U' R D' R D R' B R' F D2 R' F' 27+8-1=34
U' F R U2 F R2 D B2 R' U R2 D' R' D R2 (R U L U' R' U L' U') U' R D' R D R' B R' F D2 R' F' 27+8-2=33 -> this
U' F R U2 F R2 D B2 R' U R2 D' R' D R2 U' R D' R D R' (R U R' D2 R U' R' D2) B R' F D2 R' F' 27+8-2=33

Final solve: U' F R U2 F R2 D B2 R' U R2 D' R' D R' U L U' R' U L' U2 R D' R D R' B R' F D2 R' F' (33)
 
I don't ACTUALLY do FMC (meaning I use Petrus and try to find easy last layer cases), but this was a pretty cool solve

L' D' L B2 D R2 U R2 F D2 F2 L F2 R2 L' U2 D2 F2 U2

2x2x2 - F U' B2 R' F U B2
2x2x3 - D2 R' F R' F B' D B
EO - (z2) F R U2 R2 F' R
Thing - U' F2
Last 5 corners - (y) U2 R D' R' U2 R D R L'
(z) D' R U2 R' D R U2 R'

40 moves
 
Hi,

Earlier, i tried to do a FMC solve, and i also wanted to use NISS. The Solution is not that good, i just wanted to try NISS.

The scramble: R B2 L F R D F' L2 U B U2 R U2 D2 L2 B2 U2 R' F2 D2 R'

I made a 2x2x2 block in the normal scramble (u b2 l' b' u f2 b' l b2) , and then i switched to the inverse scramble

I then did the rest in the inverse scramble:
f' u2 f r2 f u' r (2x2x3)

i: u2 f' u' f u' f u' f u2 r' f r (f2l - 1)

i: last pair: f u' f u f' u' f' u

i: oll: r u f u' f' r'

i: pll: x y (y-perm) u' y' x'

Now i dont know how to combine all of that into an actual solution.

All help is greatly appreciated
 
Swiss NR from Opal Open :
S // R' U' F R2 D R2 U B2 D L2 R2 F L' U' B2 D2 L' B' U2 R F2 D2 R' U' F
I // F' U R D2 F2 R' U2 B L D2 B2 U L F' R2 L2 D' B2 U' R2 D' R2 F' U R

B' L' // 122
(U' R2 B') // 222 + EO
L' F2 U2 R2 U R2 U R2 F2 L D2 R F2 // L3C

Skel // B' L2 F2 U2 R2 U R2 U R2 F2 L D2 * R F2 B R2 U - 17
* D' F' U' F D F' U F
Solution // B' L2 F2 U2 R2 U R2 U R2 F2 L D F' U' F D F' U F R F2 B R2 U - 24 Moves

Another good solve :

S // R' U' F D2 U2 B2 U2 B2 R' F2 U2 L' R2 U' B' D2 L' B' R D' B' L' F U' R' U' F
I // F' U R U F' L B D R' B L D2 B U R2 L U2 F2 R B2 U2 B2 U2 D2 F' U R

U' R2 D2 F R' // 222 + many pairs
(L2 D F2 L F') // PF2L
(L U' F' D F D R' D2 L D' L' D2 R U) // Keyhole and pair commutator
Solution // U' R2 D2 F R' U' R' D2 L D L' D2 R D' F' D' F U L' F L' F2 D' L2 - 24 Moves

edit : I forgot about this one too (first one of Polimi Open)

S // R' U' F D' R2 B2 U B2 F2 R2 F2 D2 L' F' U' R' B' R2 D F' R B2 R' U2 R' U' F
U L2 U2 * // 222
B D' F L F' L B' L // Many blocks
U B2 U' B' U B' U' B' D // L3E

* U2 L2 B' L2 U2 R2 F' R2
Solution // U B' L2 U2 R2 F' R2 B D' F L F' L B' L U B2 U' B' U B' U' B' D - 24 Moves
 
Last edited:
Kristian OE said:
The scramble: R B2 L F R D F' L2 U B U2 R U2 D2 L2 B2 U2 R' F2 D2 R'

I made a 2x2x2 block in the normal scramble (u b2 l' b' u f2 b' l b2) , and then i switched to the inverse scramble

I then did the rest in the inverse scramble:
f' u2 f r2 f u' r (2x2x3)

i: u2 f' u' f u' f u' f u2 r' f r (f2l - 1)

i: last pair: f u' f u f' u' f' u

i: oll: r u f u' f' r'

i: pll: x y (y-perm) u' y' x'

Now i dont know how to combine all of that into an actual solution.

All help is greatly appreciated
Click to expand...

First of all, use capital letters for the moves. Partly because that's standard notation (you'll get a DNF if you write all your moves in lowercase at an official competition), and partly because it makes it easier to copy/paste into solvers, simulators and such. Also, your solution doesn't work for the third part; it should be U2 F' U' F U' F U2 R' F R instead. With that fixed, your solution can be written like this:

U B2 L' B' U F2 B' L B2 // 2x2x2
(F' U2 F R2 F U' R) // 2x2x3
(U2 F' U' F U' F U2 R' F R) // F2L-1
(F U' F U F' U' F' U) // F2L
(R U F U' F' R') // OLL
(x y R2 U' R2 U' R2 U F U F' R2 F U' F' U' y' x') // PLL

Parenthesised moves are those done on inverse, by convention. To convert this to a standard solution, take all the parenthesised moves, reverse them, and then append the reversed moves to the moves done on normal, like this:

U B2 L' B' U F2 B' L B2 x y U F U F' R2 F U' F' U' R2 U R2 U R2 y' x' R F U F' U' R' U' F U F U' F' U F' R' F' R U2 F' U F' U F U2 R' U F' R2 F' U2 F

This also works if you switch between normal and inverse multiple times, but you have to take care to reverse the parenthesised moves together. (Not sure if this is clear, but you can probably figure this out when it happens.)
 
Last edited:
xyzzy said:
This also works if you switch between normal and inverse multiple times, but you have to take care to reverse the parenthesised moves together. (Not sure if this is clear, but you can probably figure this out when it happens.)
Click to expand...

Here's how I always think about it: A normal solve looks like this:

S A

(i.e., you do scramble S and then moves A solve it). If you want to do NISS, you start with a partial solution (A) and add some moves which finish the solve (B):

S A B

Now you invert it all:

B' A' S'

And by the magic of the cube (which you either have to take on trust, or work out for yourself why it works), you can shift the B' moves to the end, which gives you this:

A' S' B'

Now you can repeat that process for the next switch (back to normal), by adding moves C:

A' S' B' C' --invert--> C B S A --shift--> B S A C

And then you can do it again, and add moves D:

B S A C D --invert--> D' C' A' S' B' --shift--> C' A' S' B' D'

And so on. So if you've got this far, and you want to recreate the entire solution you do this:

C' A' S' B' D' --> D B S A C --> B S A C D --> S A C D B

which tells you the order of your final solution, which is A C D B. So in general, it means you do all of your normal sections in order, concatenated together (in the order you did them), followed by the inverse of all the inverse sections, concatenated together. So you might end up with A C E G I J H F D B, for example.

I hope this helps, and isn't just overly complicating things! :)
 
Can someone help me see if this insertion is optimal or not (i.e. can 1 more move be saved in insertions??)

From Weekly Comp:
S: R2 B2 U' L2 R2 U L2 R2 U2 B' D R' F2 D R' U' B' L' R' U

2x2x2: R U' R' F L2 U' (6/6)
2x2x3: D' R D F D' (5/11)
F2L-1: R * F' D' F' D (5/11)
To L3C: R2 F R2 F' R2 F R2 F' R (9/25)

Insert at *: D B' D' F' D B D' F (8/33)

Insert : D' F F' D' = D2 (-3)
 
Sydney Championship 2016

S // R' U' F D U2 B2 D F2 R2 U R2 B2 F2 U' B' D2 L F' U' R' B' U' L2 D' R' U' F
I // F' U R D L2 U B R U F L' D2 B U F2 B2 R2 U' R2 F2 D' B2 U2 D' F' U R

(U2 F2 B2 L2 B R2) // 223
R U2 R' // PF2L-1
(F U F U' F2 U) // F2L
(F2 R' F2 R F R' F R) // ZBLL
Solution // R U2 R2 F' R F' R' F2 R F2 U' F2 U F' U' F' R2 B' L2 B2 F2 U2 - 22 Moves

S // R' U' F D2 R2 B F R2 B' L2 F U2 F' R2 U' L F D2 L' U L' U2 R' D2 R' U' F
(L2 R2 B2) // P122
L B L F D' + F L D' F' L F' // F2L-1 + EO
D' F' B D B' D' F // L3C

+ U B' U' F U B U' F'
Solution // L B L F D' U B' U' F U B U' L D' F' L F' D' F' B D B' D' F B2 R2 L2 - 27 Moves

S // R' U' F D2 R2 F' R2 B2 F R2 F2 R2 U2 F D' R2 D2 U R F U R' U F2 R' U' F
(F + L' B2 R) // 123 + 122
(U' D' F D2 L U L' B U) // F2L-1 + EO
(R B R' B R B' R') // L3C

+ F R2 F' L' F R2 F' L
Solution // R B R' B' R B' R' U' B' L U' L' D2 F' D U R' B2 F R2 F' L F R2 F2 - 25 Moves

makes 24.66 mean :)
 
On top of the weekly comp(30 HTM) I decided to do an ao5. 6 hours of FMC... and then the next day did 6 more for the ao12...
30 28 30 30 26 30 30 29 20 30 27
Single: 20 PB (was 27)
mo3: 25.67 PB (was 38.33)
ao5: 28.33 PB (was in existent)
ao12: 29 PB (what's wrong with me?)

really working on insertions, ended up getting optimal on all but 1!

Individual Attempts:
Scramble: R2 B2 U' L2 R2 U L2 R2 U2 B' D R' F2 D R' U' B' L' R' U
Solution: R U' R' F L2 U' D' R D F D' R D B' D' F' D B D2 F' D R2 F R2 F' R2 F R2 F' R 30 HTM (60m)

2x2x2: R U' R' F L2 U' (6/6)
2x2x3: D' R D F D' (5/11)
F2L-1: R * F' D' F' D (5/11)
To L3C: R2 F R2 F' R2 F R2 F' R (9/25)

Insert at *: D B' D' F' D B D' F (8/33)

Insert : D' F F' D' = D2 (-3)
Scramble: L2 U' D2 R L F' L' U F R2 U F2 L2 F2 R2 U D F2 D L2
Soultion: L F R' U' F' D F' U2 F' D' F U2 F' L F2 R' F2 U' L2 U2 B2 U2 B2 R' U R B2 U B2 L' 30 HTM (57m)

Premove: L'
EO-Line: L F R' U' F' (5/5)
1x2x3: D F2 * D' (3/8)
2x2x3: L F2 R' F2 (4/12)
F2L-1: U' L2 U (3/15) (Found Premove)
AB3C: U B2 U2 B2 R' U R B2 U B2 (10/25)
Undo Premove L' (1/26)
Insert at *: F U2 F' D' F U2 F' D (8/34) (optimal)
Cancellations: F2 F = F', D D' = , U U = U2 (-4/30)
Scramble: U2 B2 D' L2 D' F2 U' L2 B2 L2 U2 F D B' U R2 D' B L B
Solution: D B U' B' D' B U B2 L D F B U' B' U D2 L2 B U2 F' U' B' U R2 F2 R2 U2 D2 28 HTM (60m, found in first 24m)

Premove: D2
EO: * B' L (2/2)
1x2x2: D F (2/4) (Found Premove)
2x2x3: B U' B' U D2 L2 (6/10)
AB3C: B U2 F' U' B' U R2 F2 R2 U2 (10/20)
Undo Premove: D2 (1/21)
Insert at *: D B U' B' D' B U B' (8/29) (optimal, spent forever looking for better when not possible :p)
Cancellations: B' B' = B2 (-1/28)
Scramble: F2 D2 B R2 F U2 B D2 U2 L2 B2 D B2 D' R B2 R D' B' R' U2
Solution: D' L2 F2 L B2 F2 D2 F' L D' F2 B2 R D R' D' B2 R U2 R' D2 R U2 R' L' D L' D L2 D 30 HTM (54m)

2x2x2: D' L2 F2 L B2 (5/5)
EO: F2 D2 F' (3/8)
2x2x3: L D' F2 (3/11)
Switch:
1x2x2 + Pair: D' L2 D' (3/14)
Switch:
AB3C: B2 R D R' D' B2 * D2 L' D L' (10/24)
Insert at *: R U2 R' D2 R U2 R' D2 (8/32) (optimal)
Cancellations: D2 D2 = (-2/30)
Scramble: L2 D2 B' U2 L2 D2 R2 B L2 B2 F2 L' F U' B' D B' R D L2 U'
Solution: B' R' F' B' U B D' B' U' B F2 U' F2 U' F' U2 F2 R D R' B' U B U' R D' R' U' B' F2 30 HTM (60m)

EO-line: B' R' F' * D' (4/4)
Psuedo 1x2x3: F2 U' F2 U' F' U2 F2 (7/11)
Switch:
2x2x3: F2 (1/12)
F2L-1: B U (2/14)
AB3C: R D R' U B' U' B R D' R' (10/24)
Insert at *: B' U B D' B' U' B D (8/32) (optimal)
Cancellations: D D' = (-2/30)

Spent forever On B' R B D B' F2 U' F D' U' but nothing good.
Scramble:F' L2 U2 D F' L2 U' B2 L D F2 R F2 L F2 R U2 L' F2 D2 B2
Solution: B D2 L2 B' F' D2 F' R F' L2 F R' F' L2 D F D F' D F' L2 D' F2 L' D F2 26 HTM (36m, 12m skeleton)

2x2x2: B D2 L2 B' (4/4)
Switch:
2x2x3 + EO: F2 D' L F2 D L2 (6/10)
AB3C: F D' F D' F' D' F2 D2 F (9/19)
Skeleton: B D2 L2 B' F' D2 F2 * D F D F' D F' L2 D' F2 L' D F2
Insert at *: F R F' L2 F R' F' L2 (8/27)
Cancellations: F2 F = F' (-1/26)
Scramble: L2 B2 D R2 U' L2 U B2 L2 D B2 F' D' R F' U B2 F' D2 B' R2
Solution: B L F' U F' U2 B2 U2 F' B' D2 B U B' D2 B F2 U F R2 U R2 F B' R2 B U R2 U' R2 30 HTM (40m, 20m skeleton)

Premove: F
EO + 1E: B L (2/2)
2x2x2: F' U F' U2 B2 (5/7)
2x2x3: U2 F' * U F' (4/11) (Premove Found)
F2L-1: F' U F R2 U R2 (6/17)
AB3C: F B R2 B U R2 U' R2 F' (9/26)
Undo Premove: F (1/27)
Inseret at *: B' D2 B U B' D2 B U' (8/35) (optimal)
Cancellations: U' U =, F' F' = F2, F' F =, (-5/30)
Scramble: F2 D B2 L2 D' R2 U F2 D R2 U F L B' L U L' F2 L' R2 B
Solution: U F2 U' B' D' R2 L' B R B' L B R' B2 D F U' L' U L2 F L' U2 F U R' U B U' B' 30 HTM (60m)

1x2x2: U F2 U' (3/3)
2x2x3: B' D' R2 * B' D F' (6/9)
Switch:
F2L-1: B U B' U' R (5/14)
Switch:
AB3C: F2 U' L' U L2 F L' U2 F U (10/24)
Insert at *: L' B R B' L B R' B' (8/32)
Cancellations: F' F2 = F, B' B' = B2 (-2/30)
Scramble: B L2 F' L2 B R2 D2 B' F2 D2 L2 R B D' U F2 U2 B' U' R F2
Solution: L B' R B L' B' R' F2 D' R' U2 L' D B' D F' U F R2 U' R2 U' R U' R' U R2 U2 R' 29 HTM (25m)

2x2x3: * F2 B' D' R' U2 L' D B'D (9/9)
1x2x2 + EO: F' U F (3/12)
AB3C: R2 U' R2 U' R U' R' U R2 U2 R' (11/23)
Insert at *: L B' R B L' B' R' B (8/31)
Cancellations: B F2 B' = F2 (-2/29)
Scramble: B2 L F2 L B2 L2 U2 B2 L' U2 F2 R2 U' B F U R B L' U' R' U2
Solution: R2 D' F D' R' F' U2 B' U' B2 D R2 D2 R2 F D F' R' D R 20 HTM (50m)

2x2x3: R2 D' F D' R' F' U2 B' U' B2 (10/10)
F2L-1: D R2 D2 R2 (4/14)
Finish: F D F' R' D R (6/20)
Scramble: R2 B2 L2 U2 L2 D R2 U' L2 D' F2 L F' D2 F2 U B' R2 U2 R2
Solution: R2 F' U D L' F2 U' F2 D2 L2 B D B' L' F R' F' R B2 R' F R B2 L' F' L2 D2 B' D B' 30 HTM (43m)

1x2x2: R2 F' U (3/3)
2x2x3: D L' F2 U' F2 D2 L2 (7/10)
1x2x2: B D B' (3/13)
AB3C: L' F * L' F' L2 D2 B' D B' (9/22)
Insert at *: R' F' R B2 R' F R B2 (8/30)
No cancellations, stupid. :(
12: R2 B R2 B2 D2 B' L2 U2 L2 U2 F' D F2 U2 F' L' B' F' R B2
Solution: L2 F' L B' L' F2 L B L2 D L' F L2 D2 L' F2 D2 R F2 R' D2 F2 B R U R2 D2 27 HTM (60m)

On Inverse:
2x2x2: D2 R2 U' R' B' (5/5)
Switch:
2x2x3: L2 F * L' (3/8)
F2L-1: D L' D2 R F2 R' D2 F2 (6/14)
Switch:
AB3C: F2 D2 R F2 R' D2 F2 (7/21)
Insert at *: F2 L B' L' F2 L B L' (8/29) (optimal)
Cancellations: F F2 = F', L' L' = L2 (-2/27)
[/Spoiler
 
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