[Help Thread] FMC Discussion

[Bubtore]

My first try using 3 corner insertions (I once did a L3E + L5C skeletton which gave me 29 ...)

Scramble: D2 R2 U R2 B2 R2 B2 D F2 U' F2 R' B D2 R2 F' D F2 U B' R2

Pre // B2 - 1
222 + EO // B R L’ = B L F’ U’ * F’ - 8
223 // B - 1
L6C // L2 U’ L’ - 3
= L’ F2 L B L’ F2 L B’ - 4
* U F U’ B U F’ U’ B’ - 2

AB3C // B R L2 * F2 L B L’ F2 L2 U’ B U F’ U’ F’ L2 U’ L’ B2 - 20 (edit : 19)
* L F2 L’ B2 L F2 L’ B2 - 7

Final Solution // B R L’ F2 L’ B2 L F2 L’ B2 F2 L B L’ F2 L2 U’ B U F’ U’ F’ L2 U’ L’ B2 - 27 (edit: 26) Moves

Optimal would have 26 been so I'm quite happy with it, even though the last insertion isn't that great.

edit : I miscounted, it's actually 26, that's even better !!!

 

[nalralz]

Got 44 with CFOP at Cubic Catastrophe which almost got me my first podium!

 

[Joey VOV]

On the scramble from Cubic Catastrophe 2015. Would have gotten first

Scramble: U' F2 R2 U2 F2 D R2 U' F2 L2 D2 R D2 F R' B2 U' L2 F D2
inverse: D2 F' L2 U B2 R F' D2 R' D2 L2 F2 U R2 D' F2 U2 R2 F2 U

on inverse:
F2 D' L F U L' B' L' / 222 (8)
R' B' D2 B / 223 (12)
F' D2 F' D' F / F2L -1 (17)
D' R' D R D F D F' / TO L3C (25)

skeleton: F D' F' D' R' D' R D ^F' D F D2 F B' D2 B R L B L U' F' L' D F2
insert at ^: D2 F' U' F D2 F' U F

Final solution: F D' F' D' R' D' R D' F' U' F D2 F' U D F D2 F B' D2 B R L B L U' F' L' D F2 (30) Insertion was optimal. Entire attempt only took ~30 mins

 

[porkynator]

Firt scramble of WC205:
L2 U' B2 L2 D' F2 L2 D U' L2 U2 B' R2 B' R B R' D' B' F2

(B2 U2 R2 F) //EO (4/4)
U2 B2 F2 L' //2x2x2 (4/8)
R' U2 R F2 //All but 4 corner and 4 edges, 1 move cancels with premoves (3/11)

Can anyone find a good finish? It's a double 4-cycle, so it can be solved with setup + single move + antisetup, but I couldn't find any place in the solve to do this.

 

[irontwig]

Found a nice skeleton:

L2 F' L [EO]

Switch:
U' F2 [Pseudo 2x2x3]
D L2 D2 L2 F' D2 F [L4C]
B' R2 U [Pseudoness]

 

[Kit Clement]

Firt scramble of WC205:
L2 U' B2 L2 D' F2 L2 D U' L2 U2 B' R2 B' R B R' D' B' F2

(B2 U2 R2 F) //EO (4/4)
U2 B2 F2 L' //2x2x2 (4/8)
R' U2 R F2 //All but 4 corner and 4 edges, 1 move cancels with premoves (3/11)

Can anyone find a good finish? It's a double 4-cycle, so it can be solved with setup + single move + antisetup, but I couldn't find any place in the solve to do this.

Got excited when I found this, but it's 3 twisted! Ugh.

(B2 U2 R2 F) //EO (4/4)
U2 B2 F2 L' //2x2x2 (4/8)
R' U2 ^ R F2 //All but 4 corner and 4 edges, 1 move cancels with premoves (3/11)

^ F2 R' U R2 U R2 U' R F2

 

[irontwig]

Firt scramble of WC205:
L2 U' B2 L2 D' F2 L2 D U' L2 U2 B' R2 B' R B R' D' B' F2

(B2 U2 R2 F) //EO (4/4)
U2 B2 F2 L' //2x2x2 (4/8)
R' U2 R F2 //All but 4 corner and 4 edges, 1 move cancels with premoves (3/11)

Can anyone find a good finish? It's a double 4-cycle, so it can be solved with setup + single move + antisetup, but I couldn't find any place in the solve to do this.

On the inverse with premoves F2 L B2 U2:

B2 U2 R2 F' [EO]
R U2 [2x2x3]
D R2 D' F2 R F2 R [L3C]

 

[not_kevin]

On the scramble from Cubic Catastrophe 2015. Would have gotten first

Scramble: U' F2 R2 U2 F2 D R2 U' F2 L2 D2 R D2 F R' B2 U' L2 F D2
inverse: D2 F' L2 U B2 R F' D2 R' D2 L2 F2 U R2 D' F2 U2 R2 F2 U

on inverse:
F2 D' L F U L' B' L' / 222 (8)
R' B' D2 B / 223 (12)
F' D2 F' D' F / F2L -1 (17)
D' R' D R D F D F' / TO L3C (25)

skeleton: F D' F' D' R' D' R D ^F' D F D2 F B' D2 B R L B L U' F' L' D F2
insert at ^: D2 F' U' F D2 F' U F

Final solution: F D' F' D' R' D' R D' F' U' F D2 F' U D F D2 F B' D2 B R L B L U' F' L' D F2 (30) Insertion was optimal. Entire attempt only took ~30 mins

Wow, nice scramble, and nice 2x2x2 - lots of cool things that can come out of that!

An interesting start based on your 2x2x2:
On inverse:
F2 D' L F U L' B' L' // your 2x2x2 [8/8]
R F' R2 // 2x2x3 [3/11]
D F2 D2 F2 // pseudo-F2L [4/15]
D' F' // 3c3e [2/17]
IF gives 28 optimal for this, but I'm sure someone can do better than that.

Some stuff I found afterwards, not using your start:
On inverse:
U' F2 L' D B' R2 L' // pseudo-2x2x3 [7/7]
U L' U2 L // F2L-1 [4/11]
F' R' F' R2 U' R' U // F2L + eo [7/18]
D F2 D' F' D F' D' F' L // antisune finish [9/27]

On inverse:
U' F2 L' D B' R2 L' // pseudo-2x2x3 [7/7]
U F L' // pseudo-F2L-1 [3/10]
switch to normal, with premoves L F' U' L R2 B D' L F2 U:
L2 // F2L-1 [1/11]
R U2 R' // EO + some blocks [3/14]
U F' U' F U // 2c2e [5/19]
I don't really know how to 2c2e, 'tho - you can set it up into a 10-move case (thanks, porkynator, for your guide :3) with a one move cancel using R' [R' F R' D2 L B' L' D2 R2 F'] R, for a 30, but I feel like there's better somewhere.

 

[Julian]

On the scramble from Cubic Catastrophe 2015. Would have gotten first

Scramble: U' F2 R2 U2 F2 D R2 U' F2 L2 D2 R D2 F R' B2 U' L2 F D2
inverse: D2 F' L2 U B2 R F' D2 R' D2 L2 F2 U R2 D' F2 U2 R2 F2 U

(B L2 F2 D B2) //2x2x2
(L' U2 F2 U' L' F2 U) U2 //wtf2l
(U' F' L' F L U L2) //L3C

17 to L3C lol. Unfortunately only cancels 1, for 24.

 

[TheDubDubJr]

Had my worst insertions for L3C :3

This was the first scramble of the German Forum FMCs.

Spoiler

27

Scramble: R2 B2 D' B2 L2 U' F2 D' R2 B2 U2 L U2 F R' B' F2 R F R2 U2
Inverse: U2 R2 F' R' F2 B R F' U2 L' U2 B2 R2 D F2 U L2 B2 D B2 R2

Inverse
U' L2 D // EO
R F' L' // 2x2x2
Switch
B' R D2 // 2 more 2x2x1s (add premoves R' B')
B' [R] // F2L-1
[R] D2 R' D2 B' D2 B // 19 to L3C

Skeleton: B' R D2 B' R2 D2 R' D2 B' D2 B R' B' L F R' D' L2 U
with 13 different Optimal Insertions all Cancelling 0.

http://mf.qiyuuu.com/cube/if/7d66d5fa8146da99c181770e30e8dcac.cube

Mainly I find this my worst insertions yet because there were lots of 8-move comms but none of them cancelled even 1.
(also because I have never had a non-8move comm skeleton before)

 

[EMI]

Funny insertion:

Scramble: U2 F2 R2 U2 L2 U' L2 U R2 U' L U R2 F' D' B' L' D B U2

2x2x3: L U B' L2 U' L2 R2 F L'
Switch & L4C: R B U2 B2 R' B R

Skeleton: L U B' L2 U' L2 R2 F R' @ L' B' R B2 U2 B' R'
@ = R F R' F' R F R' F' R F R' F' (12-3)

Solution: L U B' L2 U' L2 R2 F2 R' F' R F R' F' R F R' F' L' B' R B2 U2 B' R' (25)

Yes, optimal.

 

[irontwig]

Cool, I think I've seen Basti use that or triple-sledge hammer.

 

[EMI]

Cool, I think I've seen Basti use that or triple-sledge hammer.

I only remember this: https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/...e-FMC-thread&p=1011459&viewfull=1#post1011459

Edit:
Average of 5 PB: 25.00
25, (28), 25, (24), 25

Spoiler: Solutions

1. Scramble: B2 U' L2 R2 U' B2 D' R2 F2 D2 B2 F D2 F L' R' U' F2 R U2 L

Pre: L2 D2

2x2x2: U2 L2
2x2x3: R' B2 D' R
Pseudo-F2L-1: B' D @ B
L3C: D' L B' L2 D' L D

@ = D2 L U' L' D2 L U L'

Solution: U2 L2 R' B2 D' R B' D' L U' L' D2 L U L' B D' L B' L2 D' L D L2 D2 (25)

2. Scramble: R2 U F' D2 R' U' B U2 R F' R2 B2 D2 F' D2 R2 F' U2 B' D2

Pre: D' L2

EO: F2 # R' U F
2x2x2: D'
2x2x3: U' L' B2 L2 U' B2
L5C: L @ U' L2 U2

@ = L' B' L F' L' B L F
# = F R B2 R' F' R B2 R'

Solution: F' R B2 R' F' R B2 R2 U F D' U' L' B2 L2 U' B L F' L' B L F U' L2 U2 D' L2 (28)

3. Scramble: U2 F2 R2 U2 L2 U' L2 U R2 U' L U R2 F' D' B' L' D B U2

2x2x3: L U B' L2 U' L2 R2 F L'
Switch & L4C: R B U2 B2 R' B R

Skeleton: L U B' L2 U' L2 R2 F R' @ L' B' R B2 U2 B' R'
@ = R F R' F' R F R' F' R F R' F' (12-3)

Solution: L U B' L2 U' L2 R2 F2 R' F' R F R' F' R F R' F' L' B' R B2 U2 B' R' (25)

4. Scramble: U2 L2 F L2 F2 U2 R2 B2 R2 B' L' D' F2 D2 F' R U' L2 D' U'

1x2x2: D2 B
Switch & Pseudo-2x2x3: D' R' D' F2 D2
Switch & 2x2x3: F' D'
Switch & Pseudo-F2L: F U' F' B' U2 B
Switch & LL: L' F R2 B' R' B R' F' U

Solution: D2 B F' D' L' F R2 B' R' B R' F' U B' U2 B F U F' D2 F2 D R D (24)

5. Scramble: F2 D2 F2 D' B2 U B2 U2 F2 U' B' R' D' R2 F' L2 U2 F L B'

Start on inverse, EO: R U B' L'
2x2x2: B2
2x2x3: [L2] F D' L2
Pseudo-F2L-1: D' @ F D
L3C: F' D F D' F2 D F D

@ = D B D' F2 D B' D' F2

Solution: D' F' D' F2 D F' D' F D' F D B D' F2 D B' L2 D F' L2 B2 L B U' R' (25)

Edit 2:
PB Average of 12: 26.50 (Had 26.60 twice before ...)
27, (24), 31, 28, 26, (31), 25, 28, 25, 24, 25, 26

PB Average of 50: 27.20 (was 27.39)
27, (24), 26, 27, 30, 26, 28, (DNF), 28, 26, 29, 26, 28, 29, (23), (23), 27, 30, 27, 25, 32, 26, 27, 31, 25, 25, 26, 31, (DNF), 26, 28, 25, 28, 30, 28, 27, 24, 31, 28, 26, 31, 25, 28, 25, 24, 25, 26, 29, 24, 29

Edit 3:
PB Average of 12: 26.30
26, 27, 24, 28, 28, 27, 25, 29, 26, (29), (23), 23

 

[2180161]

How to do insertions?

 

[porkynator]

How to do insertions?

Here is my tutorial. Page 18.

Weekly competition (I think my solution hasn't been accepted, the old "you've already submitted" problem.

Spoiler

Scramble: U' B2 R' F2 U' B' R U' F2 D' B L2 F2 U2 B D' U2 B D2 L'

B2 U2 F //EO (3/3)
(L' B2) //Blocks (2/5)
R2 L F2 L' //More Blocks (4/9)
R' * D R' //You got it, more blocks (3/12)
U' B2 L B2 //Guess what (4/16)
U2 * R' //All but 3 corners (2/18)
* = B' L2 B R2 B' L2 B R2 //Only 1 move cancels

I've found another AB3C in 18 that lead to a 25 with optimal insertions:
B R2 B R' U' B2
L F2 U
(F' U L U' L' F')
(L' U L' U')

And in my last official competition, all 3 L3C skeletons I checked had 7 moves optimal insertions. It seems I'm on a bad luck streak.

 

[Grohmann Matej]

Here is my 25 moves EO first solution with crazy 15 moves cancel:

Scramble: L2 R2 U2 L2 F2 U B2 R2 B2 U' R' D' L' U' B R' U2 F

F' U' R U2 B'/ EO + 1x2x2 + 2 CE pair (5/5)
switch to inverse
F2 L' U R' D2/ F2L-1 (5/10)
switch to normal
F' D' F2 D F'/ AB2C3E (5/15) // i think this is the best skeleton

first idea:

SKELETON: F' U' R U2 B' F' D' * F2 D F' D2 R U' L F2
* U F2 U' F' U F' U' L' F2 L F L' F L

explain:
premoves: F2 D F' D2 R U' L F2
F' U' R U2 B' F' D'/ F2L
U F2 U' F' U F' U' L' F2 L F L' F L/ 2GLL
F2 D F' D2 R U' L F2/ premoves = 29 moves

next idea was solve edges and make L3C or L4C...

SKELETON: F' U' R U2 B' F' * D' F2 # D F' D2 R U' L F2

* U' % U
% U F D' F D F2 U' / 6 move cancel / Fat sune
# F' U' F D F' @ U F D' / 5 move cancel
@ F U2 F' D2 F U2 F' D2 / 4 move cancel

final solution: F' U' R U2 B' D' F D F2 D' F U' F D U2 F' D2 F U2 F' U R U' L F2 (25 HTM)

 

[illius]

Hello.

I am an FMC beginner, so could people please give me advice on continuations on this: (and perhaps how I could have been more efficient in block building. Thanks.)

F2 D2 B2 L' B2 L' U2 B2 L D' F' U' B D2 R' B' F' L D2

U F R2 U L2 F’ L’ F // 3x2x1 (4/8)
U’ L U // 3x3x2 (3/11)


-----

 

[Kit Clement]

After having frequent discussions with some friends about how many moves we should expect to cancel on a certain skeleton, we came up with some interesting questions regarding the relationships between skeletons and how many moves they cancel. How many moves should I expect to cancel for a given type of skeleton? Does this vary from person to person? How does the length of the skeleton affect the number of moves cancelled? To answer these questions, we came up with a survey via google form to gather data on this. If you're interested, we'd love to have more people to collect data from. If you do decide to do this, please try to make a conscious effort to put in all of your solves, not just the good ones.

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1f15ia0cv1b3TjWSvM3HCE9q9orL8FN7HMcF4qIv4Jyw/viewform

Once we collect enough data, I will share what we find!

EDIT: Also, please don't go through old solutions and enter your data here. The reason being that you will be more likely to save *good* solutions, which means that there will likely be a bias towards solutions where you cancel more moves. If you'd like to participate, just enter your solutions from this moment forward.

 

[not_kevin]

After having frequent discussions with some friends about how many moves we should expect to cancel on a certain skeleton, we came up with some interesting questions regarding the relationships between skeletons and how many moves they cancel. How many moves should I expect to cancel for a given type of skeleton? Does this vary from person to person? How does the length of the skeleton affect the number of moves cancelled? To answer these questions, we came up with a survey via google form to gather data on this. If you're interested, we'd love to have more people to collect data from. If you do decide to do this, please try to make a conscious effort to put in all of your solves, not just the good ones.

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1f15ia0cv1b3TjWSvM3HCE9q9orL8FN7HMcF4qIv4Jyw/viewform

Once we collect enough data, I will share what we find!

EDIT: Also, please don't go through old solutions and enter your data here. The reason being that you will be more likely to save *good* solutions, which means that there will likely be a bias towards solutions where you cancel more moves. If you'd like to participate, just enter your solutions from this moment forward.

I love it - hopefully we can gain some empirical evidence for expected numbers soon :3

A couple quick things about the form:
- Given that there's distinction for the various kinds of L4C, as well as distinction between the 2-comm L6C and the 3-comm L6C, why is there no similar separation for L5C? For example, I got a pair of 2-cycles plus a twist in a solve I did earlier this week, and I feel like it probably shouldn't be lumped with 2-comm L5Cs.
- I feel like having a comments section would be nice to note anything different you did. (As an easy example, in the L5C I did earlier, I used triple sexy to solve 3 corners and cancel 5 moves, which allowed me to beat IF's estimate.)
- For EO, does this refer to having an explicit EO step at any point in the solve, or only if you do it at the beginning? I often do EO Petrus-style, after 2x2x3; does that count?

 

[Attila]

Weekly scramble: (ongoing)
U’ B2 R’ F2 U’ B’ R U’ F2 D’ B L2 F2 U2 B D’ U2 B D2 L’
I want to show an advanced trick, how to solve more edges, before corners permutation. I called it this technique „edges-cloning”. I hope that my explanation is useful, those who are interested the CF method.

Spoiler

Solution: L’ U2 D2 L D L D’ B2 U R2 U’ F2 D R2 B2 D’ F’ U D’ L D2 U’ 22 moves (within 90 mins)
First, as usual, solve all corners and some edges( which found easily)
B R orient corners and 2 edges,
B’ D2 F L2 F’ U2 B L2 D2 all corners and 3 edges.
After this, I use a second cube for proceed. Left the first cube, right the second (solved) cube.
Right cube rotate x’ z2 ( same place the corners on both cubes, centres ignore now)
Then , return to the original scramble (left cube): D2 L2 B’ U2 F L2 F’ D2 B R’ B’
Same 11 moves (right cube): D2 L2 B’ U2 F L2 F’ D2 B R’ B’
Now compares both cubes, there are 8 corners and 3 edges on same places.
I start again to solve both cubes simultaneously, and try to insert more edges on left cubes (I named this cloning).

inserted moves on left cube:
L’ @ R 5 edges,
insert at @: E2 ( L’ E2 l ) 7 edges,
orient corners (simultaneuosly both cubes) : B R
B’ D2 F L2 F’ U2 B L2 D2 permute corners ( both cubes),
B’ U’ S’ U F’ B2 L5E. (left cube)
Final solution ( left cube): L’ E2 l B R B’ D2 F L2 F’ U2 B L2 D2 B’ U’ S’ U F’ D2