[Help Thread] FMC Discussion

[Torch]

Here's my solution from the ongoing Speedsolving weekly comp:

Spoiler

Scramble: L2 F2 U' B2 U L2 U F2 L2 D U2 L B' R D' R2 U' R' F D R'

F D R' B'//2x2x2
B U' B' R2 U R U2//2x2x3
U F2 U' F' U F2 U'//F2L-1
D R2 D' R'//L4C

Skeleton: F D R' U' B' R2 U R U' F2 [2] U' F U [1] F2 U' D R2 D' R'

[1]: U' B U F2 U B' U F2
[2]: F' U B2 U' F U B2 U'

Solution: F D R' U' B' R2 U R U' F U B2 U' F U B2 U2 F B U F2 U' B' D R2 D' R' (27)

Insertion finder says 25 was optimal. How do you FMC experts go about L4C insertions?

 

[tseitsei]

22 move solution for ongoing berkeley weekly FMC Second best ever

Spoiler

scramble: F2 U' D2 R F2 D' U' F R' L2 B R2 D F' B L' D2 F' L' D

on inverse:
U' B L R2 F' D // 6-move pseudo F2L-1 !!!!!!!!

I found nothing good with premoves R2 F' so I tried R' F' instead and found (still on inverse)
R' U F' U' F U' R U2 R' U // leave 3C at 16-moves
R' F' // add premoves to the end 18-moves all but 3 corners

So skeleteon on normal:
F R [1] U' R U2 R' U F' U F U' R D' F R2 L' B' U

[1]=R' F' L' F R F' L F // 4-moves cancel for 22-move total solution

With a start that awesome there is probably even better ending to be found but I'm quite happy with this

 

[vcuber13]

My solves from US Nationals:

Spoiler: Solve 1 (37)

Scramble:
F2 R' F' L' B' U F U2 L' B' D2 L U2 L2 D2 F2 R' L2

On inverse:
L2 B' D L2 R' B L' // 7 // 2x2x2
R' F2 R2 F' Premove: F' // 12 // 2x2x3
B R B' // 15 // EO
D R D2 R D2 R2 // 21 // F2L-1
Switch:
R' D' R D' R' D' R D // 29 // AB3C

Skeleton:
F R' D' R D' R' # D' R D R2 D2 R' D2 R' D' B R' B' F R2 F2 R L B' R L2 D' B L2 *
Me: * [D', B U2 B'] Ran out of time. 0 Cancel, 37.
IF: # [R, D L D'] 5 Cancel, 32.

Spoiler: Solve 2 (37)

Scramble:
R2 D F2 L2 R2 D' B2 F2 U' B U2 L' F D' U2 B' F' D2 L B2

On normal:
D' R2 // 2 // 2 pairs
D' B' D' B L' B2 F R2 // 10 // 2x2x3
D2 L D L' D2 // 15 // F2L-1
F' D' F2 D F // 20 // Tripod
F' R F R' // 24-2 // AB4C

Skeleton:
D' $ * R2 D' B' # D' B L' B2 F R2 D2 L D L' D2 F' D' F2 D R F R'
Me: * [L2, B R' B'], $ [D2, B' U' B] 1 Cancel, 37.
IF: # [B' U B, D], & [L, D' R2 D] 7 Cancel, 31.

Spoiler: Solve 3 (32)

Scramble:
L2 R2 F2 D L2 F2 D' L' F U2 L' R B L B' U2 F L2

On normal:
L F' R' F' R' F2 R' // 7 // 2x2x3
Switch:
L' D2 L D2 L Premove: L2 // 13 // F2L-1
F' D' F L' F L F' // 20 // F2L
L' D R D' L D' R' D' R D' R' D' // 32 // Done

Solution:
L F' R' F' R' F2 R' L2 D R D R' D R D L' D R' D' L F L' F' L F' D F L' D2 L' D2 L
32.

 

[h2f]

My 23 solve from Weekly Competition:
Scramble: L2 F2 U' B2 U L2 U F2 L2 D U2 L B' R D' R2 U' R' F D R'

I try with Roux. First block:
y' B' r2 R' D' U F' // (6)

Next I tried to make block 2x2x2 and 2x2x3:
y' B' r2 R' D' // (4)
L' U' L r2 F' U2 F2 U' F R // 10/14
I got f2l-1.

I rewrote it to remove wide moves:
y' B L2 R' U' // 2x2x1
L' D L' // 2x2x2
F' U2 // 2x2x3
F2 U' // F2L - 1

I've noticed another easy block:
y' B L2 R' U' //2x2x1 (4)
L' D' L' // 2x2x2 (3/7)
F' U2 // 2x2x3 (2/9)
B' R2 B //F2L-1 (3/12) new block 2x2x1
F2 U' F R// (4/16)

And finished it with OLL and PLL.
y2 r U R' U R U2 r' U // (8/24) PLL skip.

I rewrote OLL to remove rotation and noticed 1 move cancelation.

y' B L2 R' U' /2x2x1 (4)
L' D' L' / 2x2x2 (3/7)
F' U2 / 2x2x3 (2/9)
B' R2 B /F2L-1 (3/12)
F2 U' F R / (4/16)
R B L' B L B2 R' U // OLL (7/23).

Solution: R B2 F' U' B' D' B' L' U2 R' F2 R L2 U' L F2 R B' R B R2 F' U
Alg.cubing.net

It's a lucky solve for me.

 

[G2013]

I think I'm the only one who can't find a good continuation to that scramble... There are blocks everywhere but I can't find a way to use them

 

[Cale S]

22 move solution for weekly FMC

Spoiler

Scramble: B2 L' D F2 R2 D2 F' B2 U R2 L' D F2 U B F2 R' D L2 B

on inverse - U2 F2 U' L' B' U // 2x2x3
B D B2 L' B // F2L - 1 + EO
on normal: L' D' L D L' D' L' D L' // to L3C

skeleton: L' D' L D L' D' L' D L' B' L B2 D' * B' U' B L U F2 U2
insert at *: [D, B' U B] // L3C

Final Solution: L' D' L D L' D' L' D L' B' L B U B D' B' U2 B L U F2 U2 (22)

 

[Attila]

Last weekly scramble:
F2 U' D2 R F2 D' U' F R' L2 B R2 D F' B L' D2 F' L' D
I found a 20 move skeleton on inverse:
R’ D F’
L U2 R’ D2
R’ F R L’ U
L2 B’ R2 L2 F L2 D2 F2 all but 6 centres

I tried in vain to find a decent insertion, this time failed.
Anyone does an attempt ?

 

[porkynator]

Last weekly scramble:
F2 U' D2 R F2 D' U' F R' L2 B R2 D F' B L' D2 F' L' D
I found a 20 move skeleton on inverse:
R’ D F’
L U2 R’ D2
R’ F R L’ U
L2 B’ R2 L2 F L2 D2 F2 all but 6 centres

I tried in vain to find a decent insertion, this time failed.
Anyone does an attempt ?

The best I could find:

R’ D F’
L U2 R’ D2
R’ F R L’ U
L2 B’ R2 L2 * F L2 D2 F2

* = M S M' S'

3 moves cancel, 25 total.

 

[okayama]

Last weekly scramble:
F2 U' D2 R F2 D' U' F R' L2 B R2 D F' B L' D2 F' L' D
I found a 20 move skeleton on inverse:
R’ D F’
L U2 R’ D2
R’ F R L’ U
L2 B’ R2 L2 F L2 D2 F2 all but 6 centres

I tried in vain to find a decent insertion, this time failed.
Anyone does an attempt ?

The best I could find:

R’ D F’
L U2 R’ D2
R’ F R L’ U
L2 B’ R2 L2 * F L2 D2 F2

* = M S M' S'

3 moves cancel, 25 total.

R' D F'
L U2 R' D2
R' (R L' U' D F B' L' R) R D U' B
U2 L' D2 U2 R U2 F2 R2

same, 25 moves

 

[Attila]

R' D F'
L U2 R' D2
R' (R L' U' D F B' L' R) R D U' B
U2 L' D2 U2 R U2 F2 R2

same, 25 moves

Thanks for yours help
I was hoping about 22-23 total moves, and I was disappointed, but it seems, not possible much more cancellation.

 

[Ninja Storm]

1st scramble @ Nats and my first sub30!

F2 R' F' L' B' U F U2 L' B' D2 L U2 L2 D2 F2 R' L2

B2 U' B' U //setup for 2x2x3 4/4
F2 R F2 D' R' //2x2x3 5/9
B' L' B //F2L-1 3/12
This is where things get a little weird. I couldn't see any further into red without having to use a ton of moves, but I saw that the white/blue pair could be solved without messing up the block, so I thought, "What the hell, I'll try it." It worked!

L2 F L F' L' D' L2 D L'//9/21

One move cancelled with the comm at the end, so I got a 29!

I know that the optimal insertion is likely not at the end, but I still suck at them and don't really know where I should've done it. I also had no extra stickers or other FMC material, so yeah :/

 

[Torch]

1st scramble @ Nats and my first sub30!

F2 R' F' L' B' U F U2 L' B' D2 L U2 L2 D2 F2 R' L2

B2 U' B' U //setup for 2x2x3 4/4
F2 R F2 D' R' //2x2x3 5/9
B' L' B //F2L-1 3/12
This is where things get a little weird. I couldn't see any further into red without having to use a ton of moves, but I saw that the white/blue pair could be solved without messing up the block, so I thought, "What the hell, I'll try it." It worked!

L2 F L F' L' D' L2 D L'//9/21

One move cancelled with the comm at the end, so I got a 29!

I know that the optimal insertion is likely not at the end, but I still suck at them and don't really know where I should've done it. I also had no extra stickers or other FMC material, so yeah :/

Just in case you didn't know, the Insertion Finder will find the optimal insertions for a skeleton. Believe it or not, 29 actually was optimal for that skeleton.

 

[billythekidd]

Hi, I started practising FMC a few days ago, and I am having some troubles with the final stage of the skeleton that comes after f2l-1 and the eo. Can someone please find a good end for my skeleton? insertions are not needed.
scramble: D L2 U' L2 U2 L2 U B2 D R2 U R2 L' D' U' B F U' R D2 F
2x2x2: y2 F2 u U2 L2 U L
2x2x3: z' y' L2 F' U' F' L2
F2L-1: U' L U F2 U' L'
solve skeleton: y' R U' R' U' R U R' U
z' y' [U' L2 U , R2]
x2 R2 [R U R', D2] R2 (1 move cancel)
=> 42 moves grrrrr

please answer this post, I spent 15 minutes writing this

 

[Memphis3000]

Hi, I started practising FMC a few days ago, and I am having some troubles with the final stage of the skeleton that comes after f2l-1 and the eo. Can someone please find a good end for my skeleton? insertions are not needed.
scramble: D L2 U' L2 U2 L2 U B2 D R2 U R2 L' D' U' B F U' R D2 F
2x2x2: y2 F2 u U2 L2 U L
2x2x3: z' y' L2 F' U' F' L2
F2L-1: U' L U F2 U' L'
solve skeleton: y' R U' R' U' R U R' U
z' y' [U' L2 U , R2]
x2 R2 [R U R', D2] R2 (1 move cancel)
=> 42 moves grrrrr

please answer this post, I spent 15 minutes writing this

Please don't use rotations, it makes it way more confusing

 

[TheDubDubJr]

Question for other World Class FMCers.

How do you normally go about EO first vs Blockbuilding first and when do you look one vs the other?
Is it scramble dependent? Do you always do one then if you don't find anything you like, you look at the other? How long do you look at one before looking into the other? What is your limit on moves to EO?

Usually I do Blockbuilding first and if I don't see anything I like, I go to looking at EO first. But when I finally get around to looking at EO, about 20-30min have already passed and I probably have a backup skeleton written down. And there are also many solves (probably half) that I don't even look at EO. And I really only look at 4move EOs, then most of the time, I skip over the ones that don't make/preserve pairs.


I do Skype FMC a lot with Ryan D, Kit C and Mark B, and this is something I usually think about because they don't use EO that much but I sometimes do and I also see many solutions from you guys with EO first.

 

[Tanzer]

First Sub 20 FMC?

When I first did this scramble I got a full step 7.21 with an N perm, so I decided to break it down.

7.21 L2 F D2 B' D2 R2 B' R2 B' D2 L B2 F R' D R2 F2 D2 U' L

z2 F' D' R' D' U R' L' (2x2x3) [7]
U y L' U L2 F' L' F R U' R' U' [11]

I broke this down a bunch of different ways and found a few OLL skips and one PLL skip, but I feel like with the solution I currently have, there could be an insertion or something done to solve it to get 25 or something.

Anyone care to provide some assistance? 7 move 2x2x3 block has serious potential.

 

[not_kevin]

Okay, finally had some time to write up my winning solutions to Nats 2015 FMC. Hopefully everything's readable Let me know if there's some way to improve the layout! I modeled it largely off of Okayama-san's style.

1st scramble: F2 R' F' L' B' U F U2 L' B' D2 L U2 L2 D2 F2 R' L2
1st inverse: L2 R F2 D2 L2 U2 L' D2 B L U2 F' U' B L F R F2
1st solution: L R D2 R2 D2 R2 U' B U R' B2 R B2 R2 B D B D' B R' B' R D' L2 D' B (26 moves)

Spoiler

My first skeleton (17 to 4 corners): L R2 D2 R D2 F' R B' R' U' B2 U F D' L2 D' B
On inverse:
pseudo 2x2x2: B' D L2 // [3/3]

Switch to normal with premove D' L2 D' B:
2x2x2: L // [1/5]
2x2x3 with premove: R2 D2 R D2 // [4/9]
pseudo-F2L - 1: F' // [1/10]
AB4C: R B R' U' B2 U F // [7/17]
Insertion Finder says cancelling 6 is optimal, for a 27: http://mf.qiyuuu.com/cube/if/7da8379d1874134fd8ec062d88982887.cube

However, being sillie and doing some dumb stuff gave me some luck:
On inverse:
pseudo 2x2x2: B' D L2 // [3/3]

Switch to normal (premoves L2 D' B):
2x2x2: L // [1/4]
pseudo 2x2x3: R D2 R2 D2 // [4/8]
"eo" (ooops): R2 U' B U // [4/12]
blockbuild to tripod: R' B2 R B2 R2 B2 // [6/18]
solve tripod: B' D B D' B R' B' R D' // [8/26]

The first time I got this, I thought I had gotten yet another 27, but realized I didn't cancel the B2 + B' in the tripod step. First sub-27, and therefore the first official FMC solve that beat my first official FMC solve

Meanwhile, Tim Wong was too much of a philosopher for me:
2x2x2: B L F2 L' U F2 // [6/6]
cross: B // [1/7]
start 2x-cross: R D' R' D // [4/11]
F2L-1: L B' L' D B // [5/16]
lel: F' D2 F D' F' D F // [7/23]

2nd scramble: R2 D F2 L2 R2 D' B2 F2 U' B U2 L' F D' U2 B' F' D2 L B2
2nd inverse: B2 L' D2 F B U2 D F' L U2 B' U F2 B2 D R2 L2 F2 D' R2
2nd solution: D B' L B2 L' B' L B' L2 B2 F' L' F L' F' L2 F L2 U' L' U D2 L' B' L' D2 F2 U F' L D R2 F' (33 moves)

Spoiler

Wow, this scramble was tough. I basically spent all my time trying to bash a single path into something that was okay, and took pretty much the full hour coming up with this sillie solution.

On inverse:
literally the only move that makes a ce pair: F // [1/1]
square: R2 D' // [2/3]
2x2x2: L' F U' F2 // [4/7]
pseudo 2x2x3: D2 L B L D2 // [5/12]
"ZZ-d": U' L U // [3/15]

Switch to normal with premoves U' L' U D2 L' B' L' D2 F2 U F' L D R2 F':
fix 2x2x3: D // [1/16]
F2L: B' L B2 L' B' L B' L2 B2 // [9/25]
LL: F' L' F L' F' L2 F L2 // [8/33]

3rd scramble: L2 R2 F2 D L2 F2 D' L' F U2 L' R B L B' U2 F L2
3rd inverse: L2 F' U2 B L' B' R' L U2 F' L D F2 L2 D' F2 R2 L2
3rd solution: B' D2 B D F' D2 F D R F L' F' L' R2 B' R F2 R' B R F2 D2 R2 D2 R D (26 moves)

Spoiler

Wow, what a scramble. My Saturday evening was Square-1 finals into FMC attempt 3, and I was first seed in both at the time; if I didn't choke in Square-1 and the last scramble was fairly easy, there would be a very good chance I walk away from Nats with two championships. If I got too nervous in Square-1 and the last scramble was like the second scramble, then I would lose to Kit (who was tied in sum up to now). Imagine my pleasant shock when I see this thing

I found this skeleton first.

On inverse:
square: D' R' D2 // [3/3]
2x-cross: R2 D2 L2 // [6/6]

Switch to normal with premoves L2 D2 R2 D2 R D:
F2L-1: B' R2 B // [3/9]
F2L: D F' D' F // [4/13]
AB3C: F' D' F D R F L' F' L R' [7/20]

But wait, there's more - the L at the end actually cancels with the L2 premove, giving a 19 to AB3C:
B' D2 B D F' D2 F D R F L' F' L' (*) R' D2 R2 D2 R D // [19]
(*): [R' B' R, F2] (cancels 1 - alas, optimal, with only one other place to insert a 1-move cancel)

I also tried an ending of using F' D' F D F L' F' L for ELL (leaving 3 twisted corners) - the optimal cancellation there, unsurprisingly, was to do the OLL for the 19-move skeleton.

I also found the following skeleton in the first ~30 minutes:
On inverse:
square: D' R' D2 // [3/3]
pseudo 2x2x3: R2 D2 L' // [6/6]

Switch to normal with premoves L D2 R2 D2 R D:
pseudo F2L-1: B' D2 B // [3/9]
EO, preserve blocks: D' L // [2/11]
AB4C: B D2 B' D' // [4/15]

Skeleton: B' D2 (1) B D' L B D2 B' D' L D2 R2 D2 R D

So, about 30 minutes in, I had these two nice skeletons. Because I was fairly unpracticed at 4-corners, I decided to do the ab3c one first, and then bash at the other for a while. With about ten minutes left, I found (1):
(1) [D F D', B] - cancels 4
So, my new skeleton was
B' D' F D' B (2) D F' D2 L B D2 B' D' L D2 R2 D2 R D // [19]

However, I had a lot of trouble writing this down right, so by the time I finally wrote down the right skeleton, I had around 5 minutes left. I knew that I just needed a comm that cancelled at least 2, and I would beat my current 26 - and with about a minute left, I found (2):
(2): [B' L2 B, R2] - cancels 2
However, after checking the clock, I decided that it was better if I played it safe and wrote down my 26, rather than hurriedly transcribe my new 25 onto the sheet and hope that it was written correctly. With 30 seconds left, I started writing my solution, but realized that I wasn't going to make it - with about 2 seconds left and 5 moves to go on the official answer sheet, I stopped and circled my 26 (which I had conveniently written nicely at the bottom of my scratch paper earlier) right before time. Later, I ran the skeleton through IF, and it returned with a 24: http://mf.qiyuuu.com/cube/if/4cbd49a5381739cb1ad7645f1c1f8885.cube

Later, I also found the following skeleton, with an optimal 11-move cancel insertion (!!!):
On inverse:
square: D' R' D2 // [3/3]
2x-cross: R2 D2 L2 // [6/6]
F2L-1: B2 U' L2 U B2 // [5/11]
tripod: L D L' // [3/14]
AB2C: F2 R F R' F D' // [6/20]

Skeleton: D F' R [@1] F' R' F2 L D' L' B2 U' L2 U B2 L2 D2 R2 D2 R D
Insert at @1: L' F' R' F L F' R F (cancels 5)
After the 1st insertion: D F' R L' F' R' F L F L D' L' B2 U' L2 U [@2] B2 L2 D2 R2 D2 R D
Insert at @2: U' L2 U R2 U' L2 U R2 (cancels 6)
Fewest moves: 25. 11 moves cancelled
The final solution: D F' R L' F' R' F L F L D' L' B2 R2 U' L2 U R2 B2 L2 D2 R2 D2 R D

 

[porkynator]

Question for other World Class FMCers.

How do you normally go about EO first vs Blockbuilding first and when do you look one vs the other?
Is it scramble dependent? Do you always do one then if you don't find anything you like, you look at the other? How long do you look at one before looking into the other? What is your limit on moves to EO?

Usually I do Blockbuilding first and if I don't see anything I like, I go to looking at EO first. But when I finally get around to looking at EO, about 20-30min have already passed and I probably have a backup skeleton written down. And there are also many solves (probably half) that I don't even look at EO. And I really only look at 4move EOs, then most of the time, I skip over the ones that don't make/preserve pairs.


I do Skype FMC a lot with Ryan D, Kit C and Mark B, and this is something I usually think about because they don't use EO that much but I sometimes do and I also see many solutions from you guys with EO first.

This is an interesting topic.

Months ago I saw lots of EO first solve by world class FMCers (in particular Sébastien and Batista), so I decided to try this approach more often. It seems very effective.

At the moment, I often check for EO (3 orientations, on both normal and inverse scramble) first, but I only go for it if it is either very short (0-3 moves) or if is short (4-5 moves) but it also leaves a good blockbuilding continuation, possibly a few blocks (pairs, squares, a 2x2x2) already solved.
In case I don't start with EO, I still try to solve it very early in the solve, after the 2x2x2 or 2x2x3 steps (if there are such steps).

I'd love to hear other opinions about it, especially from the previously mentioned world champion and world record holder

 

[Sebastien]

Hey there. I'm afraid that a lot of these question don't really have a clear answer.

I would definitely say that what I start with is scramble-dependent. I usually check for promising starts, which might be an easy EO, simple (non-EO-related) block building or even EO-block building. My focus is completely on the result, not on the techniques that I use from my toolkit.

As for the amount of moves, there is no clear limit in my opinion. An EO with 6 moves that results in tons of block can easily turn out to be way better than a 2 move EO that leaves you without any blocks.

The time I spend on the individual starts is also extremely scramble-dependent. For example, if I have a scramble with lots of promising EO starts and no nice blocks to build first, I might not look at any block building starts at all.

As for when to do EO after starting with simple blockbuilding, this is quite the same: I simply can't tell. I always go for what looks best/yield in a nice result, so I might do EO early, late, or maybe even not at all.

 

[Joey VOV]

edge insertions
Scramble: L2 F2 D2 L2 U' R2 U B2 L2 R2 U2 L' U' L2 B' F2 L2 R2 U' R2 B
(this was nearly linear too wtf)
on normal: Premoves D L2 U' F
B' U' B U' / F2L -2 (8)
L' F L U F U' / F2L -1 (14)
F' D F' D' / TO L3E (18)

Skeleton: B' U' B U' L' F L U F U' F' D F' L2 U' F

Skeleton optimal was 23, but I am still getting used to corner insertions so I couldn't even try to deal with this. Found a 30 using a different approach.